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July 2003 Archive

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J. Dempsey  <webmaster> Rev. 7/98, 3/99, 5/2k, 6/2k, Friday, 04/06/01 16:43:25 GMT

Man that brings back some memories. Try this on for size.

A man approached a boy sitting on the farm house porch and asked gruffly if the father was at home.
"No sir, Him an Maw gone to town." the young man replied. "What of your brother Joe?" The man asked.
"He went with em." was the reply. Seeing the mans distress the young fellow offered "If you need to borrow something I know where every thing is kept, and most anything else I can answer too."
The man looked at the boy and said "I want to talk about your brother Joe gittin my daughter pregnant!"
"Well sir,.. I know pa gets $50 for the bull and $25 for the boar, but I can't rightly say what Joe would go for"

Best one I've heard in a while.
Mills - Tuesday, 07/01/03 03:45:31 GMT

Eyes: Zero, not boring at all! But I got something else out of the story. Communication. If we don't communicate clearly, at the least we tic each other off. At the worst, people get hurt or killed.

I'm not necessarily anti immigration. But I am VERY much against those who come here looking for a job and do not make speaking english a very high priority. By all means, maintain your heritage at home. But speak the local language on the job and in public!

I had a hole in my right eye once. Kept leaking, so I went to the local clinic after a few hours. First doc said he saw something and was picking around on my eyeball. Said "I can see it" about 10 times, but couldn't get it. I told him to get a real eye doctor who proceeded to pick around like the first one and then leaned back and said he got the rust fleck out which was inside the crack in the eyeball which was made by the broken washer piece I was prying off and flew up into my eyeball.

Then he proceeded to tell me he would put the stitches in the next morning.

I opted for trying to let it heal on its own. 4 days laying still in the hospital. It worked. And I got some great back massages from a nice looking young nurse.

I didn't know they did eyeball stitches. I found that kind of creepy.
- Tony - Tuesday, 07/01/03 12:27:43 GMT

Yes, they do take stitches in the eye ball.
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/01/03 14:13:45 GMT

wugh!: Tony - I agree stitches in the eyeball is creepy. I'll take being poked or cut just about anywhere else but please don't mess with my peepers. Yikes.

Mills - snicker, heh. heheheh. That is a good one. If it doesn't bother you I'm gonna print that one off. My father in law and everybody at the farm will get a big kick out of it.
Two Swords - Tuesday, 07/01/03 16:28:31 GMT

By All means it wasn't mine to start with and humor is to be shared. it'll probably be in your 70 times by the weekend anyway.
Mills - Tuesday, 07/01/03 20:21:51 GMT

Bull for $$$$ :: Being on a farm most of my life.. Thats a good one Mills...
Barney - Wednesday, 07/02/03 01:23:59 GMT

May be an oldie: Mills, that puts me in the mind of another one. I apologize if this is a bit on the blue side.

Gentleman rancher has contracted the services of a nice lady rancher's bull for his prize, um, girl-cow (grin).
Well, this bull really knows his business and the "gentleman", standing by making small talk with the lady rancher, begins to feel amorous (or something).
Starts thinking it's time for him to put the ol' moves on his nice-looking neighbor lady.
Hitching a thumb in the direction of the happy couple, he says in a nonchalont way, "I sure wouldn't mind doing a bit of that myself."
Lady rancher spits in the dirt and says, "Go ahead. It's your cow."
Two Swords - Wednesday, 07/02/03 06:34:55 GMT

Mills, Two Swords, do you have any idea how hard it is to get anything done in the shop when you're laughing the whole time? All last night I was chuckling over the cost of Joe. Good ones.

Steve A - Wednesday, 07/02/03 17:07:12 GMT

old bull and young bull: young bull to the old " lets run down there and get us one of them cows

The old bull looks at the youngin and smiles "lets walk down and get them all"
- habu - Thursday, 07/03/03 00:48:02 GMT

HEY TWO!: this burgular broke into my shop, hes lookin' around when he hears a voice;"Jesus is watching you"....Fearfull some one is there, the buglar hides,and he hears it again;"JESUS IS WATCHING YOU", well by now, this guys pretty scared and yells out,"WHO'S THERE",a voice answered,"Moses" Well now the dude gets bold and peeks around the corner and see's my parrot sittin' on his perch. "well well, arent you a smart bird",replied the thief,"But what kind of dang fool would name his bird Moses"?....To this the bird replied,"THE SAME FOOL WHO NAMED HIS GERMAN SHEPARD JESUS"!! Its a true story....Reallly!!!
- Tag - Thursday, 07/03/03 00:53:46 GMT

true story: Good one Tag! Heheheh.
We've got a Rott/Lab/mutt kind of pooch who, at 100# dead on, is the squirreliest big pup I've ever seen. He's got a goofy high-pitched bark and just wants to play all d*mn day. I kinda wrote him off as any kind of help until one day this fella pulled in my drive with Vermont tags on his truck (I'm in Indiana) and started talking about donations for the volunteer fire dept. All my neighbors are smoke eaters and none of 'em said anything about a fund raiser. Well sir, ol' Goofy got a good look at this fella and said, "RRWOOF!" with as much authority as I've ever heard it said. Nice, loud, deep menacing bark from a coal black heavy shouldered pup like that....well, that man decided it was his cue to exit. Couple days later, I heard he'd got arrested for trying the same scam on the farm up the hill -- assistant chief.
Two Swords - Thursday, 07/03/03 02:52:40 GMT

Rott/Lab mix: Two Swords; That's a mix I've always thought would be great. Seems to me, that it would sweeten up the Rottie a little bit, and give the Lab a little more authority. Someday when our situation allows, I might just see if I can find one.
- 3dogs - Thursday, 07/03/03 08:01:17 GMT

Rott/Lab mix: I have adopted, or atleast held onto until I could find a proper home, about 12 dogs (not counting puppies) so far. 5 Rotti mixes and a litter of pups. By and large, they were all great dogs. The two sweetest were the apparently full German rottie, and the rottie/dobi mix.

However, 90% of the world is afraid of big black and tan dogs, and wouldn't get close enough to find out that the dog was calling them over be loved on. Funny how stark ivory flashes against a black face, and the rottie/dobi mix had alot of ivory to flash when he barked. And the full rotti was raised by cats, so he purred. Of course, a purr coming out of that barrel chest sounds like "I'm going to rip your head off."

The one problem child was the rottie/bull mastif mix. Stuborn as a mule, and he'd push for dominance. Of course, I am Alpha B in the house, and didn't loose a single "discussion" (proper stance, tone, and knowing how to put a 130# dog in proper submissive are major plusses). It took me eons to find an owner I thought could handle that one. He was the only one I considered putting down... The odds of the dog getting in a *physical* dominance struggle with an uneducated owner terrified me.
Monica - Thursday, 07/03/03 15:29:31 GMT


You should have called me. Last time I got into a "dominance" discussion with a fully guard trained German Shepherd, he stood up with his paws on my shoulder and kissed me. The owner, the mother of a deceased vietvet buddy about dropped her 80+ year old teeth.

Guess who wound up taking care of the dog over her next Christmas vacation? (wry grin)
Paw Paw - Thursday, 07/03/03 16:08:27 GMT

Alpha: The biggest test to my position as alpha was when we were packing up to slide out of Floyd's path, I had 3 dogs that for various reasons were yard dogs, not housedogs like I prefer. Since they were yard dogs, they didn't have the cat-training that I put most of my strays through. Anyway, getting the cats loaded into the car, and the door popped open on one of the cages, and a cat bolted for cover.

Three dogs, two rotties and a pit bull-wippit mixbreed pounced her. I charged into the middle of the swirling pile, and I'm not really sure if I was speaking, or snarling. Either way, I had three dogs instantly in submissive, without raising a hand to any of the three.

The cat was traumatised, but fine, by the way. They weren't vicious dogs, just playfull. It's just when the pit bull/wippit climbes the trees to play with the squirls, she tends to break her toys.
Monica - Thursday, 07/03/03 21:03:57 GMT

CanIron IV:: CanIron IV is free for walk on and look abouts.. All demostrations cost $$$.. Tailgate sales etc etc are free for the viewers.. Hope to see some you Pubbers there next weekend...

Barney - Thursday, 07/03/03 21:13:16 GMT

Incidently, pitbull and wippit makes for a wierd dog. FAST, lean, large head, hard headed, dumb as a stum, brindle color that matched the bark of a pecan tree perfectly. We know because that was where she prefered to sleep, in the crook of the pecan tree.

I've watched folks walk past the house, and she's going nuts barking. They look in the yard, and they see two rotties looking back, stark still, not a muscle twiching. The pit-wip was usually about 8' up the pecan tree at that point.

She also loved to chase squirls. Every once in a while the poor squirls would stop half way up the tree to scold her, only to find her on her way up the tree to join them. The squirls learned to keep running, up the pecan and then leap to the oak. The dog never learned that she COULDN'T leap to the oak too. She tried, often. She'd get about 20' before she'd try to make the jump. I have no idea why she never broke her legs.
Monica - Thursday, 07/03/03 21:13:43 GMT

I'd love to have seen her try tor the jump! I can just imagine the look on her face, half way to the ground, "Aw, Chit! Missed again!"
Paw Paw - Thursday, 07/03/03 21:23:25 GMT

There was a farmer who had three bulls on his farm. One day he decided that he needed another bull for his herd. Word got out to the three bulls that the farmer already had and they got together to discuss the situation. The first bull said that he had 100 cows and that he wasn't going to share any with the new bull. The second bull said that he had 75 cows and he wasn't going to share any either. The third bull said that he had 25 cows and he wasn't going to share his cows. So one day, the farmer loaded up the truck and went to the livestock auction. When he came back to the farm, the three bulls came to the truck to see what the farmer brought home. The farmer opened up the trailer and out stepped the meanest, baddest bull that they had ever seen. He jumped off the trailer and began to tear everything up in sight. He started chasing the cows all over the place. The first bull got scared and said that he wasn't going to be selfish and that he would share his cows. The second bull said the same thing. But the third bull bowed up and began to snort , paw the ground and make a big ruckus. The other two bulls were shocked and fearing that that he would make the new bull mad asked him what he thought he was doing.To which the third bull replied, I just want him to know that I'm a bull!!!!
- mike - Thursday, 07/03/03 22:45:44 GMT

Jokes and dogs: Just getting caught up and now I'm rolling on the floor! the dog up the tree and Paw Paw's commentary !!! Been a tough couple of days gonna pound on steel tomorrow. I am a skoush closer to actually putting up a trial web page. Maybe by the end of the month.

Posted this across the street but for those who don't go there I thouught I'd share.
Picked up an unknown sample today for Reactivity, Corrosivity and Ignitability. From a close by military installation enviro dept. Usually it means we are looking for gunpowder or diesel. Had an MP chain of custody labeled contraband with a list. Curious. Mind you the Enviro guys hand me this stuff and go back to their games of solitaire. Get to lab, read CoC from MP's "containers labeled AN M8 Smoke" "containers labeled CS" "containers labeled M116-A1 Blast Simulator".. etc. hmm maybe we should approach this sample with some caution. Go to Chemist and explain that we should first try a SMALL sample to see if burns very quick or smokes very badly. "what in it?" I open the container with the yellow powder carefully. Probably not a propellant, too fine. hold it low and away to see if there is an identifiable smell, give it a little shake to see the texture WOOOOPS!!! I know THAT smell. Any one been through the gas chamber will know exactly what I mean. ROFLMAO. Quick.. you guys go rinse your nose DON'T rub.. too late. still ROFLMAO.. CS powder is fun stuff to play with if you follow the rules. mmm mm mmm We were pants half down on this. with out a quick inspection such as this she would have opened and smelled and woww that would be a nasty surprise!!

Now if I can get my hands on that sample when this is over,, small baggy with a Leetle dab in it , throw on a forge as I walk by. Naw, that is funnier thinking of the effect than the pummeling I would get by the reality of it.
Mills - Friday, 07/04/03 01:11:16 GMT

Drill a small hole in the end of a piece of branch, Just a short piece, just a small hole. Fill the hole about half, three quarters full of sample. Mix some of the sawdust with some Elmer's Carpenter's glue and plug the end of the hole. Allow to dry. Drop in the forge as you walk by.

Got a neighbor with a fireplace? Same routine, but larger hole, more sample, put the stick back in his firewood pile. (evil grin)

Knew a guy once (ahem!) who had a neighbor that needed a lesson. Fixed a piece of firewood with four ounces of black powder that way.

Was real quiet in the neighborhood for several years after that.
Paw Paw - Friday, 07/04/03 01:27:26 GMT

More Bang:: Fill a small gas line anti freeze can with acetylene. Put a few metal shavings inside first. Then when filled with the Acety, plug the hole with buddies spark plug wire. Set it down close the hood and listen. A plastic oil bottle will lift the hood.

Barney - Friday, 07/04/03 19:34:44 GMT

Anvil: Well, I picked up a 70lb anvil today. It is cast iron, it doesn't ring and has a raised 70 under the horn. Face was marred up some but about 20 minutes with a grinder and belt sander cleaned that up and a touch on the horn. Actually it ain't a bad anvil for $70. The rebound ain't too bad, not as good as the Peter Wright it was near, but that one was 95 pounds I believe. Might just use this one in the garage when I heat a few things up with the oxy/acet torch. Oh, after I cleaned up the face, I gently whacked it with a hammer a few times and that didn't mar the face at all. The stuff I ground off was probably misuse as a backer for a chisel. Hate to see that on any anvil.
Bob H - Friday, 07/04/03 21:15:44 GMT

Hello: Hi,

I'm Jason. I have been a hobby smith for about 15 years, but I am trying to get the equipment together so that I can open a shop.

I mainly specialize in knives, and other cutting instuments. One of the only people in the area that does.

Thanks for allowing me to put my two bits worth in.
Jason Duncan Central Arkansas
15yearsmith - Friday, 07/04/03 23:25:03 GMT

We'll even let you throw another two bits into the pot, if you want! (grin)

Welcome to Anvilfire.
Paw Paw - Friday, 07/04/03 23:51:32 GMT

puppies: Monica/PPW - Never seen a pit/wippit mix. Sounds...odd. Had a neighbor's pit try to climb a tree after me late one night when a very young (STUPID) me was doing something he ought not. I was sure happy to see he didn't make it very far up.
Mills - make sure you let us know what the name of the site is, so we can load you up with crank emails and stupid jokes. Just playing. Honestly, I think we're all interested when somebody gets that far along.
PPW - black powder in the firewood - you're a bad man. I love it.
Two Swords - Friday, 07/04/03 23:54:40 GMT

Two Swords:
Who, me? Don't know what you're talking about.
Paw Paw - Saturday, 07/05/03 00:57:36 GMT

Years ago, when CS spray first came out, we used to locate the local bad guys cars, slim-jim the door, and spray the heater vents with CS. Also sprayed the steering wheel and gear shift. Always nice to see one of them cet in, fire up the heater or A/C and then take his hand off the wheel to rub at his itchy eyes. 'Course, we used to do it to each other too, on those long graveyard shifts. Along with firecracker ambushes, etc. Sleeping on duty just wasn't safe, at least from your fellow officers.

One of the clowns I worked with in the 70's substituted CS for the powder in a fire extinguisher and then lit the roll-call room watsebasket on fire. The Lt, an exciteable type, grabbed the fire extinguisher and let fly. We had outdoor roll-call for a week until they got the room re-painted. My squad did about a quarter-million pushups that week on our knuckles in the parking lot, as I remember.
vicopper - Saturday, 07/05/03 03:10:53 GMT

Book to consider: When I first got started in the blacksmithing game. My grandad (God rest him). Had worked in his dad's blacksmith shop. Of course this was back in 1920's Tuckerman Arkansas. He gave me a book that he got when he got back from WWII. Called Shopwork on the Farm.

I would recomend this book to the new hobby smith. It has good feel for the begginer. I recieved this book when I was 7, and still have it today. 15 years later.

I hope my two bit are well recieved. (grin)
Jason Duncan
15yearsmith - Saturday, 07/05/03 04:19:29 GMT

fun with CS: these stories are getting better and better! Fire extinguishers can be fun just on their own, but CS? Dear me....
Errmmm, Paw Paw, how would a piece of firewood, "fixed" in such a way as you have described, react in an open fire, like say a bonfire, for example?
Two Swords - Saturday, 07/05/03 04:27:15 GMT

Two Swords,

I don't know, I wasn't present, but the guy said that it acted just like a flare for a couple of seconds. Evidently it ignited and burned, rather than exploding.

Personally speaking, I don't think it's something I'd want to play with.
Paw Paw - Saturday, 07/05/03 05:31:02 GMT

Mid-nite shift pranks: Back when I was a Deputy Sheriff, we had a Sgt. who would wait until you were out of the car, tending to the call of nature. Then light a firecracker-or crank off a round if way out in the sticks. He was responsible for many wet boots & pant legs.
Brian C - Saturday, 07/05/03 16:18:41 GMT

We used to "ambush" each other with firecrackers all the time on midnights. Mostly pretty good fun, until the Lt. caught me one night. I'd missed finding an unsecured office complex in a burglary-prone area, so when he found it, he hid out in there and had the dispatcher suggest I check it out. While I was checking the ground floor, he dropped an M-80 down the stairwell. He thought it was funny. Took me about three weeks to get back at him.

I caught him parked between two dumpsters at the back of the KMart building, eating his lunch. Spotted him from so far away he didn't know he been made. I crawled across the roof from the front and dropped an M-80 of my own down next to his car. Unfortunately, the flippin' thing hit one of the little posts sticking out on the side of the dumpster and went in the passenger window. The Lt bailed, and the the M-80 blew a hole in the upholstery you could bury a German Shepherd in. We had to sneak out to the county garage and switch seats with one of the County Commissioners cars. The next day, the day shift Sgt. had a tough time keeping a straight face when he took the vandalism report from the County. After that, the firecracker games stopped for a while, for some reason.
vicopper - Sunday, 07/06/03 03:02:58 GMT

Pranks: I was workinin a midnite shift guarding planes, when I had to make a nature call. While I was out of the vehicle, I crawled along side the door and then laid on my back until my partner realized I'd been gone for awhile. When he opened the door, I reached up and grabbed his ankle while emitting a rather loud and guttural growl. The shreiks people make at 3 in the morning!
Nother one was when we got a new troop, and he had to go. So just go outside the truck we would say. Then when they were in mid stream so to speak, I'd turn on the lights and sirens and back up, and get on the PA and say"Hey! What are you doing?" Sure had fun some nites!
Bob H - Sunday, 07/06/03 03:21:25 GMT


Shame you didn't have a video camera set up. You could have gotten a promotion for the cassette, if you had.
Paw Paw - Sunday, 07/06/03 03:23:11 GMT

Bob H.:
Another good video missed!
Paw Paw - Sunday, 07/06/03 03:24:50 GMT

Jason; I have my Grandpa's copy of
  3dogs - Sunday, 07/06/03 05:39:14 GMT

"Shopwork" book: Jason; I have my Grandpa's copy of "Shopwork on the Farm", too, and I'm 61 years old. I got it 35 years ago. Good stuff. Cherish it. Best regards, 3dogs
- 3dogs - Sunday, 07/06/03 05:41:04 GMT

Quenchcrack: Made something totally different today. A Fat Lamp, the kind made to burn tallow or suet. Took a 3" square x 1/4" plate, cut the corners off, forged it round, raised the edges to about 3/32" thick but left the center at 1/4" about 2" in diameter. This gave it a heavy bottom to resist tipping. For the wick holder I forged a 1/4" round to a scroll end, made a loop about 1/4" ID, flattened the other end, and riveted it to the bowl. Bent it over the bowl so the loop was just above the opposite rim. Not sure how historically accurate it is but it does work pretty good, at least with olive oil. Fresh out of beef tallow.
Quenchcrack - Sunday, 07/06/03 19:56:22 GMT

Possible new addition: I used to work security at a lumber mill. They had what was called a gassifying boiler. I am currently trying to figure out how a blacksmith could make this work. If I could make it work. I would have considerably less fuel loading to do. The principal is to not only burn the fuel(Charcoal in this intance). But to also have the fire gas ignite. In a kind of controlled flash over so to speak.

I am going to throw my idea out there, and let people more learned than me give me feed back.

Take a 55 gallon drum, improvise a collar to lock it to the forge, place fire brick in the collar, form fire brick to go on the inside of the barrel, cut 3 spaces, 1, an extra air vent, 2 an ash dump, and 3 a work door, and 4 in the side at the top for a chimney, Stablize the whole thing, add your smoke vent pipe, and cure your brick.

My question now is will it work, or will I be spending time on something that has no possible way it will work. If you have tried to build something like this. Please let me know how it turned out. If you just have two bits to add. I'm open to anything.

Jason Duncan
15yearsmith - Monday, 07/07/03 02:03:56 GMT

James D.:
Speaking for myself, I'm having a hard time visualizing what you are saying. Could you do a sketch, and upload it to the Yahoo site for us to look at? It SOUNDS feasible, but I'm not sure I'm "seeing" the what you are saying.
Paw Paw - Monday, 07/07/03 02:07:21 GMT

Paw Paw: I uploaded a very rough drawing in the anvilfire foto group. Look in the photo section. It will be in the folder Jason Duncan

15yearsmith - Monday, 07/07/03 16:40:19 GMT

Jason: Sounds like you are designing a wood stove to forge in. Quite possible but I don't know if you will get the heat high enough for secondary combustion and with the openings and chimney if you do it will be probably high up and not getting the heat to the metal as much as one would like.

It is possible to make a biomass fuel gassifier where you heat the material in a sealed container and vent the resultant gas to where you want to burn it. Don't know how well it would do for a forge; but they ran vehicles off it during WWII, (don't say they ran well but it beats walking!)

- Thomas Powers - Monday, 07/07/03 16:58:30 GMT

Thanx for the advice: It was just a theory, and most people in here are more learned than I. This is why I chose to take professional criticism instead of letting my labors not work in trial.

Thanx a million
Jason Duncan
15yearsmith - Tuesday, 07/08/03 00:11:19 GMT

CS: Ohh that brings up loving memories. Dad sent me to college with a half-full container of mace. Half full, because before he gave it to me, he, umm, gave it to me. I think I surprised him by how calmly I swore, then walked into the house to clean off. Of couse, being able to walk through the house with no vision what-so-ever helped, cause I sure couldn't see anything. "It's how they do it in boot camp (sorta)"

By the way, it spreads with water. Amazing what Arm&Hammer can do.
Monica - Tuesday, 07/08/03 01:03:55 GMT

I'm inclined very strongly to agree with Thomas. Looks like a lot of extra work for a very chancy return.
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/08/03 01:25:53 GMT

Bob H.:
I keep going back to your "HEY! WHAT ARE YOU DOING??" stunt. Wet all over himself, sure as the world.

Had a youngster on my shift when I was a sergeant. During my one tour in the MP's. Working the back gate at 0300 hrs. Absolutely NOTHING to do. Nothing to read. Going stir crazy.

I get a radio call, "Uh, Mike Pappa 13, got a small problem at gate 3."

"What kind of problem, 3?"

"Nothing major, just a small problem that I need you to look at."

"What KIND of problem, 3?"

"Well, the big window at the end of the guard shack is broken."

"How did that happen?"

"Uh, Mike Pappa 13, I'd really rather show you what's wrong, than try to describe it.?"

I'm already in transit so I tell him, "10-4, 10-17.", and let it go at that.

Stupid jerk has been playing "quick draw McGraw" with is M-1911A1. On the draw, catching the ejection port on the edge of the chamber, and jacking the first round into the chamber. Practising against himself in the window which was just like a mirror at that time in the morning. Forgot and pulled the trigger!

Fortunately, I carried a couple of extra rounds in my pocket, "just in case". But I had to break into post engineers to get a piece of glass.

He worked his butt off for the next month!
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/08/03 01:34:51 GMT

Back in college, some frat boys had discovered a
  Tim Button - Tuesday, 07/08/03 01:35:56 GMT

First chamber should read holster. catching the ejection port on the edge of the holster and jacking the first round into the chamber.
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/08/03 01:36:08 GMT

Fireworks pranks: Sorry for the false start...

Back in collge, some frat boys discovered a "secret" place to toke up -- a flood control tunnel that went under part of the town. In dry weather, only a small stream flowed through it, but it was big enough to drive a semi through. My buddies and I followed them one night. After giving them time enough to start feeling good, we rigged up a little raft with a pack of firecrackers and a cigarette delay fuse. Let it set sail and WOW, what echos! Never saw the frat boys use it again.
- Tim Button - Tuesday, 07/08/03 01:44:15 GMT

Fat lamp:
I've made one myself, starting with 1/2 inch square rod. I upset the end a bit, then drew the end to a short blunt point. Then wailed on it to bring it to about 1/16 in. or so thick, and dished it out on a stump. Looked like a long, shallow pitcher with a very narrowly pinched spout. After that I drew the rod down to about 1/4 in by 8 in long, put some twist in it and curled it up and over the bowl. Finished the en with a small flat loop hook.

This type is meant to hang up, rather than sit on its own. It is a bit primitive looking, but it resembles some photos I've seen of a pan lamp called a "crusie." I burn Crisco shortening in it. About as bright as a candle, but needs lots of attention to keep the grease pushed toward the wick.
- Tim Button - Tuesday, 07/08/03 01:59:32 GMT

Pranks revisited:: Another thing I have done, which is always better around 3 in the morning, is I have stolen my partners M-16. See, you are driving around, bored out of your mind, when I s-l-o-w-l-y reach over and start sliding the rifle towards me. Then I shove it under the seat on my side. Then when I get out, grab my rifle, and start walking away, you see total panic in the victims eyes as they try to figure out what happpened to their gun and how they can explain losing it.

'Nother simple thing I'd do is just turn to look past that person out in the dark, as tho I'd seen something. Naturally, they turn to look and I let out an ear peircing yell and slap the seat right next to them with a crack. Hee hee, man, in the wee hours of the nite, the way people jump it's just like they are trying to crawl out of the vehicle. Yup, it was nasty but what else are ya gonna do in the wee hours?
Bob H - Tuesday, 07/08/03 02:14:30 GMT

Bob H.:
LOL, man you're as sick as I am!
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/08/03 02:44:36 GMT

Tell you what, it would NOT due for Mills, Quenchcrack, Vic, Bob H, Me, and a couple of others to get together! Some of us would wind up in the crossbar hotel, sure as the world.
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/08/03 02:45:51 GMT

help: hi my name is Dave, I live in Australia can anyone sent me some info about a buffalo forge 210? I m currently trying to rebuild one and cannot find a diagram or picture to guide me. Have you got anything thanks
- Dave - Tuesday, 07/08/03 08:28:40 GMT

help: hi my name is Dave, I live in Australia can anyone sent me some info about a buffalo forge 210? I m currently trying to rebuild one and cannot find a diagram or picture to guide me. Have you got anything thanks
- Dave - Tuesday, 07/08/03 08:44:52 GMT

help: hi my name is Dave, I live in Australia can anyone sent me some info about a buffalo forge 210? I m currently trying to rebuild one and cannot find a diagram or picture to guide me. Have you got anything thanks
- Dave - Tuesday, 07/08/03 08:47:13 GMT

crossbar hotel: Always remember, "A friend will bail you out of jail. A REAL friend will be sitting in there beside you saying-D**n that was fun!"
Brian C - Tuesday, 07/08/03 12:07:23 GMT

Thomas Powers: Paw-Paw the term "critical mass" comes to mind...

- Thomas Powers - Tuesday, 07/08/03 12:40:14 GMT

It's all fun and games: Till some one puts an eye out,

my brother and I found a cut off truck drive shaft that just fit over a plastic pop bottle. Fitted it with a plate and a starter from a Bar-b-que on one end. We filled one bottle as a charge with neutral oxy-acy mixture and another one 1/2 full of water as a sabot. It makes a great mortar.

big GRIN
habu - Tuesday, 07/08/03 13:10:47 GMT

The rednecks last words: THAT Aint Nothin' WATCH THIS....
habu - Tuesday, 07/08/03 13:40:14 GMT

There are no pictures or manuals. I'll take a look at the Buffalo Catalog on CD that I've got and see if there is anything in there, but if not, you're pretty much on your own. You can get better help on the guru's page, but first let's see if I can find anything.
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/08/03 13:48:29 GMT

Wrought Iron: Just received notification of a new Wrought Iron site take a gander at it looks rather Ozmandias to me...

- Thomas Powers - Tuesday, 07/08/03 19:39:35 GMT

"CanIron IV":: Well folks on the way to CanIron IV today. You all be good. Be back on Monday..Hope to see some pubbers there..

Later folks.
Barney - Wednesday, 07/09/03 14:00:11 GMT

Quenchcrack: Had a physics prof in college who was convinced that UFO's were real and it was only a matter of time before they made themselves known. He went to the local movie house every Saturday night and during his absence, a few of us went to his house and burned a 20' diameter ring in his backyard with gasoline. At the same time, another group released a helium balloon with a road flare attached to it. It made a very noticable red glow as it drifted over our little college town. The next day, everyone was talking about the strange red light over the town. When the prof saw the ring in the back yard and learned about the red light, he was convinced they had come for him and he was not home!
- Quenchcrack - Wednesday, 07/09/03 16:43:35 GMT

UFO's: That was just plain cruel, did you burn in a set of odd footprints leading to the back door too?

- Thomas Powers - Wednesday, 07/09/03 18:31:16 GMT

anvil finds: I picked up a 400ish LB anvil for 50cents a lB.
it is a mousehole cutlers anvil, a bit odd with cut outs in the face but it has great rebound and the face is like working on a table (a full 6inch width!)
sorry just had to brag a bit!
MP - Thursday, 07/10/03 03:21:34 GMT

thanks paw paw: Thanks Paw paw, I was looking into the catologue myself, can you tell me if it will be worth me buying? If not I'll keep looking. Thanks for getting back to me though. Dave
- dave - Thursday, 07/10/03 11:20:46 GMT

Hammer clearance: Hi All, I am almost finished with my Home made power hammer in the Kinyon design. Anyone have any insight as to the amount of clearace there should be between the hammer guide and the ways?
- Ron J. - Thursday, 07/10/03 13:12:06 GMT

I can't find anything about the 210, either, so it probably wasn't made till after the catalog.

Buffalo equipment is generally well made, if the price is right, I'd buy it and re-build it.


Clearance? Darn little, just enough for grease.
Paw Paw - Thursday, 07/10/03 13:59:52 GMT

Anvils: If a group of Crows is called a Murder, a group of Lions a Pride, and a group of sheep a flock. What is a group of anvils called ????

an Obsession?
an Envy ??
or an Irony !

Mark P - Thursday, 07/10/03 19:58:03 GMT

oppps: should have put the link elsewhere

anvil group?
Mark P - Thursday, 07/10/03 20:27:15 GMT

Anvils: Round these parts they call them a "harem", a stack, refer to them as GAW "gross anvil weight"---how about a coyote of anvils?

- Thomas Powers - Friday, 07/11/03 02:46:22 GMT

Leg power: Tomorrow I should be the proud builder of my first big piece of shop equipment. I am building a treadle powered hammer. Not an air or electric model ( Don't have a comepressor or an electic motor), But it should fit my needs for now. At least until I can upgrade to a full electric powered hammer. But it will be in the spirit of the scrounger. I went to a few friends with massive supply piles, and they donated several items to the project.

All I have in the project is about 40 bucks. For the anvil stand, and some welding rods. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Jason Duncan
15yearsmith - Friday, 07/11/03 03:17:42 GMT

Anvils:: I figure a group of anvils should be called a ring of anvils, even though this might be considered discriminatory against Fishers and other non-ringing anvils...
John Lowther - Friday, 07/11/03 15:52:06 GMT

pawpaw: thank you for looking dave
dave - Saturday, 07/12/03 00:43:18 GMT

Sorry I couldn't be more help.

John L.

A "ring" of anvils. Hmm... I like that better than an irony of anvils. I'll vote for Ring of Anvils.
Paw Paw - Saturday, 07/12/03 02:27:06 GMT

pawpaw: could you have a look on your buffalo forge cd for me . I have found 2 list numbers on it . on the blower it is 1299 and on the gearbox it is 1262. the unit is made of carstiorn with three mounting points under the gear box if not thanks any how for your help dave.
dave - Saturday, 07/12/03 05:49:56 GMT

new wrought iron website: "Look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair."
nicely designed website, at least. Long time no post, folks. When any 2 butterflies meet in any given field, the combined wind from their wings is forceful enough to knock out my electrical service. First outage: 9:30 a.m. July 4. Finally got power restored for longer than 2 hours: Wedesday evening. Anybody out there got advice for generator shopping?
Two Swords - Saturday, 07/12/03 08:00:45 GMT

P.S. : Ring of Anvils gets my vote too, just *behind* the politically incorrect "Harem!"
Two Swords - Saturday, 07/12/03 08:06:38 GMT

Two Swords:
Honda makes a good generator.
Paw Paw - Saturday, 07/12/03 10:52:53 GMT

Highest number I can find is a number 11. The other numbers are probably casting numbers, or part numbers.
Paw Paw - Saturday, 07/12/03 11:00:29 GMT

arggggghhhh: I have a very big problem right now. I need a new blower for my champion rivet forge. While I was gone yesterday. Someone took the liberty of repeatedly swatting it with a sledgehammer. Any Ideas on where I can find the blower and housing?

Jason Duncan
15yearsmith - Saturday, 07/12/03 15:46:28 GMT

You've GOT to be kidding! But just in case you are not kidding, find and join your local blacksmithing group, and see if anyone there has one available.
Paw Paw - Saturday, 07/12/03 16:53:31 GMT

Rivet Forge Blower: Jason, by the shearest coincidence, I happen to have a Buffalo Forge Blower for a rivet forge. It is in extremely good condition. I recently posted how I stripped it down, cleaned it up, oiled it and put it back together. The gears and bushings are in excellent shape. It will move a lot of air for an 8" diameter blower. If you will e-mail me, perhaps we can find a way to get it to you at a reasonable price.
Quenchcrack - Saturday, 07/12/03 17:41:45 GMT

Generators: Tweo Swords,

I've found that the Briggs & Stratton Vanguard engine is a bit better than the Honda, for reliability. Down here in hurricane land, we all have generators. My house is so small that all I really need is 6kw, so I bought a cheapie from Harbor Freight that has a Vanguard engine. Cost about $500 with shipping. Starts on one pull, and runs great. If you have a wife that can't yank a rope starter, look for an electric start, and also get a solar-powered battery float charger to be sure that the battery is always up.
vicopper - Sunday, 07/13/03 00:36:11 GMT

Now that sounds like a good arrangment, to me. I hadn't thought of the float charger, but it's a dam good idea.
Paw Paw - Sunday, 07/13/03 01:00:55 GMT

Good news: After 6 hours of work. this is better than good news. My Great uncle helped me fix the blower. It just took 6 hours, and considerable headache to get it done. Turns out most of the damage was merely cosmetic. They didn't hit an area that was going to cause a lot of damage. Just a dented housing, and 2 bent fan blades. We pulled the blower apart, and checked to see if any guides, gears or bushings would have to be replaced, and everything except the above mentioned items were fine. Pulled it apart, removed the dents with an arbor press, and straightened the fan blades out. put it all back together, and she works like a champ again. I honestly expected the damage to be non-repairable. Oh BTW Quench. If you will shoot me an email at I would still like to talk about that blower you have.

Thanx a million
Jason Duncan
15yearsmith - Sunday, 07/13/03 01:57:59 GMT

Gennies: Something to look at is run time per tank. Some generators have to be refilled often. And make sure you get enough power for the job. Don't skimp and buy a cheaper model that isn't quite up to snuff. It will drag the gennie down when things start up, bad for the gennie and bad for whatever is trying to start. And what I did is mark all my priority breakers with white paint. That way, I turn off all other breakers, just leaving on the painted ones, which cover the necessities. Furnace, frig, freezer, one room for tv and lights. Prior planning prevents p*** poor performance. Prepare in advance for your needs, not after you are already inconvienanced. And that is my not so humble opinon.
Bob H - Sunday, 07/13/03 02:04:10 GMT

Generators redux: Bob H makes a very good point about not underbuying. Get one that will run what you need to at about half to tow-thirds of rated capacity. That leaves room for simultaneous motor starti8ngs and the like. However, it not a good idea to overbuy, either. Particularly in the case of diesel generators, underloading them is hard on them. Whatever you do, be sure to run the thing periodically for an hour or so to "exercise" it. If you have a gas generator, use Sta-Bil in the fuel to prevent varnish from forming during idle periods.

For my tjiny little system, I just have a jumper cord made up that will couple the generator to a 220v receptacle that my welder normally uses. When the power goes out for more than a couple of hours, I open the main disconnect from the utility company and plug the genset into the welder receptacle and fire it up. It will run everything bt the A/C with no problems. When I finally notice that the jfolks up the hill have power again, I shut off the genset and unplug it and then turn on the disconnect. A regulation transfer switch would be better/safer, but the damn things cost $300 that I'd rather spend on something else.
vicopper - Sunday, 07/13/03 02:34:06 GMT

gennies: thanks for everything so far, folks. I started out in typical over-engineer mode. I wanted something that I would never have to replace. Since the power's on (for now) I want to plan the thing right.

Question #1 - alternator/surge watt rating: how much do you trust it? Some of the sparkies I work with highly recommend it, but I'd rather have constant wattage equal to the task (esp on a gas model), esp. simultaneous starts.

Question #2 - What's the word on alternative fuel gennies? Any special experiences or problems? I have LP in a great large tank for my house's oven, water heater, furnace. The co-op "HQ" is 5 miles from the house. The furnace never gets used now that the woodburner is dialed in, so running low on LP is not a general concern (til I get the shop built and run a gas forge off it, too...heheh, muah...). So what d'you think I should watch out for on em?

Bob H - good ones. I like marking the priorities beforehand.

PPW - you, recommending a Honda? What's going on here? (grin)

Vicopper - float charger. good plan. looking on HF wesite now. Thanks.
Two Swords - Sunday, 07/13/03 03:03:40 GMT

Two Swords:
They make a decent generator.
Paw Paw - Sunday, 07/13/03 04:03:46 GMT

Two Swords: I would shy away from LP myself, due to the lower efficiency of engines running on LP. The engine has to be slightly over-sized for the gen head and that costs extra fuel. Part of my reasoning is that down here LP ain't that cheap, so your mileage may vary, as they say. Gasoline is almost always available, even at odd hours and on holidays.

Add up the wattages of all the motors that may reasonably be expected to occasionally start simultaneously, and then double it. That will be the starting load. If the peak output of the proposed generator is about that, then you'll have more than enough capacity. In reality, it isn't likely that all of them will start at one time. Usually two at once is about all you really have to worry about. Remember that you can always switch off high-load items like electric water heaters when you anticipate heavy draw from other sources. It is also possiuble to wire an extra relay to a motor with a starter so that it controls the primary of a second motor, preventing it from starting when the first motor is in the start phase.

One possibility that hasn't been mentioned so far is a used generator. Mostly, the things don't get used all that much, and people wind up selling them when they move or something. Used prices can be very attractive if you know how to do a decent survey and a bit of tune-up. Always stay away from the cheapies with wimpy engines (i.e. Tecumseh, L-head Briggs & Stratton, etc.), as they are hardly worth tuning up, much less rebuilding. Look closely at the alternator head and avoid those with non-replaceable plastic cooling fans. I know a guy who has a pile of those outside his shop that you can have for free. They have no life expectancy and cannot be repaired when they do break.

If you want a hefty generator cheap, and don't value your time too highly, then you can put a really nice one together by getting a Japanese car engine and a belt-driven 10kw alternator head. Snatch the cruise control from the car while you're grabbing the engine, gas tank and muffler. With the proper sheaves, you can have that little 3 or 4 cylinder engine just above idle and the gen head spinning along at 3600 rpm slick as a whistle. The advantage to the DIY job is that you get a water-cooled engine with real bearings, a real muffler and more than enough power with very low fuel consumption. Electric start, too. Did I mention that it will produce less than a third of the racket that a cheap 5kw will? On second thought, grab the whole car so you can have your DIY generator "trailer-mounted."

vicopper - Sunday, 07/13/03 07:38:22 GMT

pawpaw: thanks again dave cheers.
dave - Sunday, 07/13/03 11:38:05 GMT

Generators: I know not whereof I speak here, but some precautions need to be taken to prevent feeding current back onto the grid. The linemen who repair the system get really surley when they find someone trying to run a home generator and it is feeding back onto the grid. It makes a difficult job REALLY dangerous.
- Quenchcrack - Sunday, 07/13/03 13:51:42 GMT

Generators: QC is correct, of cou7rse. NEVER run on generator when you're still hooked to the grid. There are two ways to isolate your house from the grid. One is to purchase and install a transfer switch that opens the circuit from the utility company and then closes the circuit to the generator. Transfer switches can be either manual or alutomatic, but either way they are a double-pole double-throw switch. A 200 amp manual costs a couple hundred bucks and an automatic costs about a grand.

The other way to isolate yourself is to open the main disconnect switch at the service entrance and then connect the generator "downstream" from there. If you use this method, lock the main disconnect in the off position so that is doesn't get inadvertently closed and backfeed the transmission lines. Utility companies do not approve of this method, but it is very common among those of lus who can't afford spiffy transfer switches.
vicopper - Sunday, 07/13/03 19:10:23 GMT

Gennies: I do like Vic does. I shut off my main breaker and back feed from my 220 line in the garage. It works and protects the linemen.

Oh, picked up a nice vise today. I'm starting to feel guilty about having so many vices and getting such a good price like today. Well, I guess I can live with my guilt. LOL
Bob H - Sunday, 07/13/03 20:13:28 GMT

BobH. I hope you meant VISES (mechanical gripping devises) and not VICES (moral indescrtions). What the heck, they are both worth having more than one!
  Quenchcrack - Sunday, 07/13/03 21:23:15 GMT

Generators: Amen to Vicopper. If you backfeed into a stepdown transformer, it can become a stepup transformer! Linemen are more afraid of homeowners with generators than most anything else.
- 3dogs - Monday, 07/14/03 05:34:52 GMT

Generators: Amen to Vicopper; Backfeeding into a stepdown transformer makes it a stepup transformer! Linemen are more afraid of homeowners with generators than most anything else.
- 3dogs - Monday, 07/14/03 05:39:55 GMT

Generators: Amen to Vicopper; LInemen are more afraid of homeowners with generators than most anything else. Backfeed into a stepdown transformer and it can become a STEPUP transformer!
3dogs - Monday, 07/14/03 05:44:36 GMT

Gennies: Having a few brave friends that are linemen, PLEASE be 1000% sure you've thrown the disconnect! Heck, I would prefer y'all just spend the money on the transfer switch, but I know budgets are prohibitory. Their death rate is high enough without the extra risk.
Monica - Monday, 07/14/03 15:31:32 GMT

Artist needs your prayers: Hi gang, just got word today that my chainsaw artist friend Gary Patterson from Stauton Missiouri is dying from brain cancer. Please pray for him and his family. Thanks Stiffy
- Mike Jean - Monday, 07/14/03 23:23:19 GMT

Mike Jean: Gary Patterson? If I remember correctly, he's done the Dixie Classic Fair here in Carolina. Hate to lose him, will add him to my list.
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/15/03 00:01:09 GMT

Generators: A carpenter friend of mine has a restored Dodge pickup truck that has a slant 6 engine in it, under the hood, where there is a lot of room to spare, he mounted a large generator and an air compressor head. He took the back bumper and replaced it with a 8" box tube capped on both ends as an air tank. He welded a box to the tank for his electrical outlets, and a reciever hitch.

The idle is controled with a cruise control and the belts are attached by control clutches from auto air conditioners. I doubt that it is the most economical system, but talk about a slick system.

habu - Tuesday, 07/15/03 03:22:17 GMT

edit: should read ... engine in it. Under the hood, where..

where else would you put the engine? Your bonnet?

habu - Tuesday, 07/15/03 03:31:26 GMT

Bonnets: Yes, in your England, anyway.
vicopper - Tuesday, 07/15/03 16:27:37 GMT

Bonnets: Yes, in your England, anyway.
vicopper - Tuesday, 07/15/03 16:27:38 GMT

Transfer switch. . .: Once upon a time a Lawyer who couldn't stomach the profession any more was a security guard at a dog food plant. Now it was important that the machinery keep running, 'cause if it didn't the dogfood would get ruined, and what are you going to do with tons of over-cooked dog food?

Now while friend Lawyer was on duty, the ice storm of the decade hit and of course the power went out. Ol' Lawyer went and started the diesel backup generator and switched it on line and it stalled. Started 'er up again and switched 'er on line again. Stalled.

Friend Lawyer then pulled out the instructions for powering up the steam turbine with the process boiler. Still not right but at least he got a little dim glow out of the lights. He poured on more gas and water and the lights started going, though brighter and dimmer as the governor hunted for the right speed.

Then, scratching his head wondering about the surging of the turbine, he went outside to cool off a bit and saw the lights across the street getting brighter and dimmer in time with the ones in the plant. Ol' Lawyer realized he was trying to power the whole neighborhood!

Uttering an expletive he ran back inside and pulled the main cut-off switch and the lights turned blue and a lot of 'em burned out as the turbine overreved before the governor could adjust for the suddenly reasonable load.

Needless to say friend Lawyer had some explaining to do about all the burned out lights and the fact that the stack needed repainting. . .
John Lowther - Tuesday, 07/15/03 19:05:46 GMT

err, transfer switch: Yes, this is a very good idea. I'm afraid I'll have to do it on the cheap for a while, with just the disconnect, but would like to get the switch fairly soon. Have a line now on a used gennie, recently tuned, 13 hp V-twin with cast sleeves, 7.5 kw. She'll do the house nicely, and then some.

Like the lawyer my old house I had the feeling something was wrong when I kicked my miter saw on around dusk and watched my neighbor's lights go dim.
Two Swords - Wednesday, 07/16/03 06:07:14 GMT

re: bonnett: vicopper - next you'll tell me they put their "trunk in their boot, and fix them with a spanner" lol
habu - Wednesday, 07/16/03 12:04:56 GMT

re: bonnett: What's wrong with that or aren't you talking English!! :)
- Nigel - Wednesday, 07/16/03 15:41:30 GMT

"CanIronIV": Back from CanIron was a great time. Weather was a little different. But meet lots of people Not sure if I meet any pubbers. ANyway I am back in the North country. TTYL
Barney - Thursday, 07/17/03 20:48:43 GMT

Gensets: Ok, I am a little late on the generators but here goes. You can buy a used "stand by" genset for a fraction of the new price. They typicaly have few hours on them (mostly from being exersised) If you play it right you will get the auto-start/disconect switch also. Thus having an auto on/off genset for your home/shop. You can also check out used construction equipment. You should be able to pick up a good 30 kw genset for a few thousand dollars.

Just a few thoughts from someone who used to do it for a living (millitary and civi)
Wayne Parris - Friday, 07/18/03 12:44:57 GMT

Gensets: A few hours from being exercised... Good point. Make sure that the used Genset has some hours on it, to indicate that it was fired up and "exercised" periotically. The last thing you want is a ten year old with no use.

If you go for used construction equipment, be sure to check their service log. When I worked at Aggreko, customers could maintain the rental generators themselves, but they always got a thorough look over each time they came back from rent.
Monica - Friday, 07/18/03 16:06:12 GMT

> The last thing you want is a ten year old with no use.

I can certainly agree with that, but a twenty one year old with no use would be a different story entirely. (grin)
Paw Paw - Friday, 07/18/03 18:06:57 GMT

Gensets: I did a quick search on Google for “standby gensets used” and got several pages of referrals. At the first company I went to, I found two good potential sets. The first was:

15KW Kohler 15.0, 15RM82, Wisconsin, Open-Unit, Engine, 120/208V, Three-Phase, 1800 RPM, 60 Hz., Telecom take-out LP/Gas Fueled, 470 hours since new. RYAY-SD $2,175.00

the second was;

0 KW Onan 30.0EK-15R/6686H, Ford 300ci, 120/240 Volt, Single-Phase, 1800 RPM, 60 Hz.12-Lead re-connectable, Telecom take-out, Service records back to 94' LP/Gas Fueled, 940 hours since new. Rebuilt radiator, "New Thermo Block Heater" No MLCB. TUNN-SD $4,900.00

The second unit would be a great unit for your shop, think of all the 3 phase power tools you can get from industry that go cheep because they are manual not cnc!

I would also go for a L/P unit over a Gas unit. There is less to be maintained on them and the engines last longer. The difference in required hp is taken into account when the unit is made and the exhaust is cleaner to boot!
Wayne Parris - Friday, 07/18/03 18:08:36 GMT

post fix: That second set is a 30 kw not a 0 kw OOPS:)
Wayne Parris - Friday, 07/18/03 18:11:13 GMT

Can I just use wood pellets instead of coal?
  Paul the Pounder - Friday, 07/18/03 20:02:09 GMT

Yes, but you'll have to re-work your fire maintenance procedures a good bit. The wood will burn faster, and with a lot more sparks than coal. You'll need a deeper fire bed, and use more fuel, also.
Paw Paw - Friday, 07/18/03 20:26:42 GMT

Alternative Fuel generators: Lets not forget steam power now. It is still a viable power source for home power. They can burn wood, corn cobs, coal and almost anything that will burn. Talk about alternative fuel. They can even be used to replace for good the power you use off of the grid.

If you want to know more, here are a few web pages on the subject.

If you use a system from a place like Messersmith's then you can utilize an automatic system that uses chiped fuel and the generator system is hand off. If you use a hand fed wood log system then it will require more physical effort to keep going.

What ever you do DO NOT use a fire tube boiler. They like to blow up. A water tube boiler is very safe and a monotube simply can not blow up.

Note that I have not made or used a steam powered generator system but everyone that I have heard of doing so was very pleased with their performance.

Caleb Ramsby
Caleb Ramsby - Friday, 07/18/03 20:35:44 GMT

San Antonio: Gonna be in San Antonio over the next 5 days. Any blacksmithing related things I should see while there?
Bob H - Saturday, 07/19/03 01:20:34 GMT

San Antonio: Haven't seen too many BS attractions in San Antonio. They ruined the River Walk. All Yuppie Bars now. Go to the Farmers Market (Mercado) for trinkets. A trip to Gruen (Green) is a nice day trip. By all means go see the Old Missions, well worth the time. The Alamo is interesting if you can filter out all the tourist junk. Despite the hype, many brave men died there. Last of all, get some good Tex-Mex food, it's great in SA.
Quenchcrack - Sunday, 07/20/03 20:04:22 GMT

:2002 ABANA CD:: While at CanIronIV I purchasec the ABANA CD. Couldn't make the show so I got the CD. Anyway how do I make a slidshow from it. At present I am clicking on each frame, at 300 plus frames thats alot of clicking.
Barney - Sunday, 07/20/03 20:18:34 GMT

Monica, when you worked for Aggreko, did you ever run into Todd Comeau and Glenry Landry from New Iberia? Best regards, 3dogs
  3dogs - Tuesday, 07/22/03 05:57:18 GMT


Setting up a slide show depends on what software you are using to view the pictures. Let me know the answer to that, and I'll TRY (not promising success) to sort it out for you.
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/22/03 11:29:17 GMT

Transfer Switch:
A transfer switch is required by the electrical code (thus the law) and not having one on any permanently connected emergency generator is thus illegal as well as dangerous.

As VI noted a transfer switch is a two source single output switch and must be installed in your main service line to the grid, thus it is a job for a licensened electrician AND requires turning off the incomming power. If you are putting in a new electrical system that is the best time to install one.
- guru - Tuesday, 07/22/03 12:58:35 GMT

Lets not forget wind and hydro.

Most commercial small hydro is not "stand alone". They cannot generate power with being connected to the grid. They use induction motors as generators and "lean on the grid". This means that as the turbine comes up to speed they connect power to the motor when is matches its running speed. THEN the turbine pushes it faster than operating speed thus generating power (rather than using power).

This is a very simple system that actually does not require transfer or grid loss switches as the generator quits if there is nothing to push against. However, most contracts to sell power require special switches and do not allow automatic restart. These systems also do not work as emergency or stand alone generators. But they sure are simple.

There are many megawatts of unused hydro in America. NOT untapped resources but abandoned hydro stations and old mill dams. These do not require new dams or changes to the environment. A law was passed to encourage the development of this resource but regulation has killed the industry.
- guru - Tuesday, 07/22/03 13:41:21 GMT

Fire Brick: Hi all...I'm currently working on making a propane forge. I've got the burner, the propane, all the necessary connections. Only thing I'm missing is the firebrick for the firebox. I'm having trouble locating it. I live in Maine, around the Portland area, and for the life of me I can't find the right type. The type being the kind that reflects the heat into the fire box instead of absorbing it. I've tried fire place stores but they only have the heat absorbing kind, or don't know what I'm talking about. Can anyone PLEASE!!!! help me. Obviously I can't ship it or it would cost a I need somethign within driving distance. Any help would be appreciated
- Ben Winn - Tuesday, 07/22/03 13:45:23 GMT

ABANA CD 2002: Thanks PPW got it working.. Now just have to slow it down some so I can see the pictures. Its about a 5 sec flash. Lots of interesting stuff.

Barney - Tuesday, 07/22/03 20:42:51 GMT

Fire Brick: Ben, firebrick should be available from your local ceramics hobbyist supply place. Check your yellow pages. Also, Guru sells Kaowool in the Anvilfire online store, which is in many cases superior to firebrick; I myself use a forge lined only with Kaowool (no ITC-100, a surface protectant and heat reflector) and find it extremely good. Best of luck on your gasser!
Anvilfire Store'
T. Gold - Tuesday, 07/22/03 20:48:54 GMT

ABANA 2003: Saw you folks talking about the ABANA 2002 conference and just want to mention that the 2004 Con will be held not too far from my stomping grounds. If you haven't heard it will be held at Eastern Kentucky University in Richmond, Ky. Richmond is located in the east central portion of Ky. and is right off I-75. About 30-35 miles south of Lexington and only a few miles north of Berea which is noted as the craft capitol of the state.
Another pertinent bit of info: Richmond is wet, but everything south of there is lacking in acoholic beverages.
Anybody planning to make the trip?
- Larry - Tuesday, 07/22/03 23:58:55 GMT

Fire Brick: The best thing to use in the bottom of a gas forge is a "ram refratctory" material, over blanket material. I have been using this stuff in my gas forges with great results. I forge weld frequently, and they run an average of 6 to 8 hours per day. The stuff does not wear out and reflects well. Check out Industrial Heating magazine for a local source of refracory materials. This is how I found my local source.
Jymm Hoffman - Wednesday, 07/23/03 03:18:33 GMT

Fire brick: Ben, you may want to consider a forge design without using fire brick, the kaowool product that is sold in the anvilfire store is a good substitute, and may be shaped and repaired easly. A nice design and instructions can be found on shdwdrgn's web page Jeff (shdwdrgn) and I have made 4 of these forges for our shops and they work well. One note: we have found that the opening on the ends are too large and need to be reduced to provide back pressure, generaly we use a fire brick. Grin. For the ultimite forge design check out vicopper's pic's in the yahoo link in the navigate anvilfire box.
shdwdrgn's forge
habu - Wednesday, 07/23/03 03:20:30 GMT

ABANA 2004: Larry:
Being a native of Lexington and a grad of EKU, I would'nt miss it for the world. Hope to meet you and other contributers from this board there. If I remember correctly, the Guru has some connection with that area also.
Brian C - Wednesday, 07/23/03 16:41:58 GMT

Do you use Silicon Bronze in your MIG?: I just purchased some silicon bronze wire (.030) for my MIG and ran a few test beads with it. I'm impressed with the speed and smoothness of the beads. I tried copper to steel, copper to stainless steel, stainless to steel and stainless to stainless with very good results. Copper to steel gave me some trouble until I preheated the copper.

I'd be interested in knowing what you use it for and the results you have.
- Jack D - Wednesday, 07/23/03 16:44:03 GMT

CON 2004: Brian C : Glad to hear that you are planning on going to the ABANA conference. My son is also an EKU grad. He went through the Police College there. Graduated in '98. Works as a probation officer in Lexington now. I look forward to meeting some of you people there if I can scrape up the money.
If I remember correctly, I believe Guru is from the northern part of the state. Up closer to Cincy or Ashland. How about it Guru?
- Larry - Wednesday, 07/23/03 23:53:17 GMT

FIRE or refractory BRICK:
Firebricks don't reflect heat. They either absorb it or they act a insulators. The difference is density. Hard durable high density refractory brick also conduct and absorb a lot of heat. But they are slow conductors so the surface retains a LOT of heat and appears to be reflecting it.

Low density insulating bricks are a light as styrofoam and about as strong. But being low density and full of air they do not conduct heat very well. So the insulate. Normally a furnace is faced with hard high desity brick and backed up by soft brick and softer insulating brick.

For high reflectivity and high insulation many gas forges are built out of light weight Kaowool(tm) blanket and then coated with ITC-100. The ITC is an infra-red reflectant and provides a hard semi durable surface over the soft blanket. It also prevents breaking down of the ceramic blanket surface reduces dust. Generally this makes the lightest most high efficiency forge you can build. We sell both in our on-line store. However, for durability hard brick is better and I recommend it for floors. Note that you can also cover the brick as well as castable refractory with ITC-100 to provide a hard reflective surface.

ITC products are also used to line and protect crucibles and foundry tundishes. The ceramic industry uses great quantities of ITC products for a net fuel expense savings.
- guru - Thursday, 07/24/03 03:57:20 GMT

2004 Conferences: The ABANA conference at EKU is at my home town (I was born in Richmond). My parents and a sister graduated from EKU and visits there often. We will try to provide an accomodations report prior to the conference.

There is an anvilfire/CSI confernece in the works for May of 2004. Location the central US. Details to follow. Will be lots of notices. I may not make ABANA but I will try very hard to make OUR conference.
- guru - Thursday, 07/24/03 04:03:04 GMT

2004 CSI Conference: Confunnit, Guru, couldn't you put it in the summer so the student blacksmiths among us could attend? *cough cough*
T. Gold - Thursday, 07/24/03 05:29:57 GMT

Fire Brick: Ben, I had problems finding insulating fire brick, too. For some reason the ceramics hobby shops talked to me like I had two heads when I said I was making my own forge.

But then I looked up "refractories" on the online Yellow Pages. I found three in my area, one about two miles from my house, in Derry, NH, that had no problem selling me individual bricks. The 2600F bricks go for about $3 apiece. I also found insulating castable for my current forge-in-progress.
- Marc - Thursday, 07/24/03 11:54:17 GMT

Used Leather Apron: I need a well-used leather apron for a Ren-Faire costume. Anyone have one and willing to part with it? Email me:

-Dave Peck
Chicago Swordplay Guild - Webmaster
David Peck - Thursday, 07/24/03 14:47:19 GMT

CSI conference: T. Gold,
Now May is the summer for some folks...(grin) Least wise looking at the temps this past May in some locations it sure looked like summer...
Ralph - Thursday, 07/24/03 14:48:44 GMT

Central US?: Timing is great with me, and does offer the better chance of warm enough not to suffer, and cool enough not to be miserable...

Any more precise definition of "central"? Taking a centroid of CONUS, we'd probably wind up in Iowa or Nebraska... But I'm kind of dreaming of more east of the Mississippi... ideally along the I-65 corridor?

Steve A - Thursday, 07/24/03 18:08:16 GMT

Central...: Well if ya take a map and fold it such that Maine lands on the West coast Fargo ND is in the crease....
Looks as if KS or OK are about most center. Biggest question is, who lives in that general area who can do a lot of the leg work etc to make this happen?
Ralph - Thursday, 07/24/03 19:24:16 GMT

CSI Conference: Fedex has its hub in Memphis because of the central location, and the National Ornamental Metal Museum is here as well with plenty of smithin resources.

It's a thought, anyway :-)
tanix - Thursday, 07/24/03 20:33:34 GMT

central: But Memphis is in the east coast/souther part of the US..
Hmmm since we have some folks in the GReat White North perhaps we need to consider how folks will be getting there. As in airports and hiways....
Ralph - Friday, 07/25/03 06:03:04 GMT

CSI conference: Well let me kick in my two bits. OKC is pretty close to the middle and has three Interstates intersecting here. Airport is not a hub for anyone though. So flying in will almost always be through some connecting flight. It is easy to find your way around in though.
Another thought would be Dallas to the south or KC to the north both of which have a lot to recommend them.
Mills - Friday, 07/25/03 14:00:42 GMT

Central: The geographical center of the lower 48 states is near the town of Lebanon in north central Kansas. Throw in Alaska & Hawii, and the center moves north and west to the vicinity of Castle Rock, SD.

I under stand the population "center of gravity" of the US is near Edgar Springs, MO.
John Lowther - Friday, 07/25/03 20:19:21 GMT

ABANA 2004: I am planning to attend this one.. Couple of days drive from here. May fly, will see when the time gets closer. Will be watching for updates as they appear.
Barney - Saturday, 07/26/03 01:15:53 GMT

Central: If you're gonna figure the center based on including Hawaii and Alaska, then you really ought to take the Virgin Islands into account, too. That will shift thiungs back east a goodly bit, I would think. Anything to avoid South Dakota in the summertime.
vicopper - Saturday, 07/26/03 05:10:15 GMT

CSI Conference: If you're gonna figure in the Virgin Islands, don't forget about Puerto Rico... (VBG)
- T. Gold - Sunday, 07/27/03 00:50:50 GMT

Conference: Bet Jock wishes he hadn't mentioned it now, BOCG. Or did he just to see the reaction...
Mills - Sunday, 07/27/03 01:13:54 GMT

Anvil: Hey everyone, I'm just trying to get started in blacksmithing, and the one tool I'm having alot of trouble finding is an anvil. I live in New Brunswick, Canada, and there's not many active blacksmiths I know about, so I have no idea where to start looking. Could anyone help me out?
- Greg - Sunday, 07/27/03 01:27:03 GMT

Anvil: Greg, I ended up finding my "anvil" in a scrap yard, in the form of a 145lb steel machine part. Cost for me? $20. I don't know much about Canada, but if there are railroads in your area, many smiths swear by a section of RR rail. Also, Harbor Freight has recently added cast steel anvils to their product lines at pretty reasonable prices... I'd be interested to hear about their performance myself! (G) Don't get stuck on the classical pattern anvil of the horn and hardy style. Just find a big, solid piece of steel and make a stand.

So humid that I had to saw through the air to get to my bike this morning in Kaneohe, Hawaii.
T. Gold - Sunday, 07/27/03 07:32:13 GMT

Anvil: Thanks alot. I've heard about RR rail being used as an Anvil, but I've heard they're not that great (I suppose right now though, I just want something I can get started with). Also, I'll be headed down to Saint John sometime this week, which is a pretty industrial city and still has an active railroad, unlike the rest of the province, so I might have some luck there.

And you're very lucky to live in Hawaii... I hate the winter.
Greg - Sunday, 07/27/03 17:01:54 GMT

Does anyone here use old wrought iron I have been using some that is 100+ yrs old it is neat to work. How hard can it be tempered I want to make some knives with it.
  Frank - Sunday, 07/27/03 19:44:10 GMT

You can make all the knives you want out of wrought iron, but you'll never be able to make one that will hold an edge. Wrought iron has virtually no carbon, and therefore can't be hardened. You need about 50-100 points of carbon to begin to get edge-holding qualities in steel. Get some truck springs or leaf springs from a car and forge your knives from them. You'll be much happier.
  vicopper - Sunday, 07/27/03 21:07:32 GMT

Greg & T. Gold,:
RR track will work for an anvil, but used in the tradtional position, it't pretty springy. OTOH, if you stand it on end and do your work on the bull head, it works pretty good.

You can also buy a reasonably priced cast STEEL anvil from Harbor Freight (NOT a cast iron ASO, POS, a cast STEEL anvil) They apparently make a fairly decent beginner's anvil. I've not used one, but Quenchcrack wrote a product review which I can't find. QC?
Paw Paw - Sunday, 07/27/03 21:54:26 GMT

Anvil : If I got a "real" anvil (not RR rail), what size would I need? Is 100lbs ok?
Greg - Sunday, 07/27/03 22:46:20 GMT

Marbles?: Recently a fella showed me how he makes a simple letter opener out of mild steel. The neat thing about this one is that he splits the end, tapers and scrolls the ends. Then he uses a steel ball bearing to form the scrolled ends around. That holds the ball bearing in place and forms the socket for when he pulls one scroll out, reheats and drops in a marble. It really is kinda cool having a marble wrapped in the scrolled ends. Now, has anyone ever put marbles in a basket twist? I thinking of trying that. First I have to get some 1" diameter ball bearings. But what I am going to do is weld a small 7" or so wire handle to the bearing. That way it doesn't roll away while I'm trying to work the ends around it.
Bob H - Sunday, 07/27/03 23:16:21 GMT

Start Anvil:: Greg .. there are a few smith in your area. I was at CanIron IV and meet a couple. Chk the Nova Scotia chapter of ABANA..Met a gent from there but cannot remember hisname.. If you are the Northern Ontario area Do drop in. North Bay

Cheers and have fun......
Barney - Sunday, 07/27/03 23:27:18 GMT

Bob: Pictures! I bet the Guru has tried or seen someone try, though... might have better luck on the Guru's Den.

Greg: 100lbs is plenty. Bigger is better in terms of rebound, stability, and worksurface; smaller is easier to lug around when you don't have a real shop and need to drag everything into and out of the garage/shed/whatever.

And believe me, Greg... I've lived in Kansas City for 8 years... the cold is definitely preferable to the humidity here. Hawaii is only livable during the winter...

So humid the carpet feels wet in Kaneohe, Hawaii.
T. Gold - Sunday, 07/27/03 23:30:00 GMT

A 100# anvil would do fine for a starter anvil. I used a 105# anvil for years, and still keep it in the small shop where it gets occasional use.
Paw Paw - Monday, 07/28/03 00:00:48 GMT

Alright, because I don't want to be spending several hundred dollars on a big anvil right now, at least not until I get a little more involved in blacksmithing.

T. Gold: No, personally I'd take any humidity over the bitter cold we get regularly in the winter. The only reason I wouldn't want to live in tropical areas is because I really hate spiders.
Greg - Monday, 07/28/03 01:14:16 GMT


Unless you are going to regularly forge stock that is larger than 3/4" square, you'll be fine with a 100# anvil. General use, most shops need 150# up to 250#. Only for HEAVY use do you really need more than that.
Paw Paw - Monday, 07/28/03 01:37:06 GMT

We are about 24 hours away from pulling the plug on our old server, only our second host in 6 years. THIS forum and the guru's page have been tested on the new server and seem to be ready to go. However, we have not gotten the Slack-Tub Pub running so there will be lots of broken pub links for a while.

POSTS after this one may get lost as I am backing up the forums for the move now.
guru - Monday, 07/28/03 01:58:09 GMT

Wrought Iron: *Surprise* there *was* high carbon wrought iron---but it was called "steel" AKA "blister steel", AKA "shear steel", AKA "double shear steel" but all built on a carburized wrought iron base. (this was the stuff they melted to make "crucible steel" or "cast steel" from back then)

Plain wrought iron will not harden and it's not usually worth the effort carburizing it. *But* WI is great for welding and so you can weld a chunk of file between two WI pieces and forge out a nifty knife with a file steel edge.

WI is also preferred for knife fittings by some folks as it has a great look to it when etched.

Or if you are into iron age recreation a wrought iron blade will be authentic if now nearly as good as a steel one...

- Thomas Powers - Monday, 07/28/03 14:13:19 GMT

Russian Anvil Review: PPW, I believe Guru put the review in the 21st Century section under anvils. Even though I just bought a 170# Czech anvils from Old World Anvils, the Russian is still a good anvil to start on. I am keeping mine for demos.
- Quenchcrack - Monday, 07/28/03 14:57:34 GMT

Russian anvil: The review is under "Anvils: Testing Rebound" in the 21st Century section.
Quenchcrack - Monday, 07/28/03 15:02:32 GMT

Posts from this point are on our NEW server at JTLnet.

Counts 132,397, Global count 3,096,855
- guru - Monday, 07/28/03 16:08:50 EDT


Read Quenchcrack's message, just up from this one.
Paw Paw - Monday, 07/28/03 18:46:11 EDT


Recently we had an incident of porn spam from a member of the Yahoo Foto site. The spam came from an account that I had "auto-approved". Of course, I immediately removed the sending address. In addition I have started sending a message to each applicant to the site asking for their real name and reason for applying to the site. I hope no one is offended by these questions, but I will NOT permit our site from being corrupted by slime balls. If you apply, you will get a message from me. Please just answer the questions, and I'll immediately approve your membership. I'll do this with all applications, even the ones that have "hammer", "forge", "smith" etc in the address, the sorry trash that send out sporn (Hey! I like that word! grin) are clever enough to disguise their addresses with words that we normally would use.
Paw Paw - Monday, 07/28/03 21:44:27 EDT

iForge: Hey will the slack-tub be up in time for weds. iforge demo?
- Phil - Tuesday, 07/29/03 10:44:40 EDT


Don't know for sure, still fighting with the server change problems. I know Jock is working on all of the problems, but he needs to take care of the advertiser's pages first.
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/29/03 11:51:53 EDT

My forge: As is pretty obvious I'm a newby to the art but as my wife says " the fire burns through my blood". I have made a forge from an old tire rim and some flat bar stock. We are currently useing a old attic fan for a blower, and burning coal. my "shop" consists of an old wood sheed enclosed on three sides various sized hammers some old monkey wrenches and a 55 # anvil. In all I think I have spent about $4.00 in aquireing all this stuff. I didn't mean to brag just say hi to those that haven't recently seen the guru site. Any suggestion on free or next to free stuff for improvements?
Joshua - Tuesday, 07/29/03 13:52:03 EDT


Suggestions on free or next to free stuff for improvements depends a great deal on what type of improvements you have in mind. We'll be glad to help with suggestions.
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/29/03 14:31:42 EDT

stuff: Pretty much anything tool wise, afterall I've only been doing this since may of this year. Maybe some plans for things non too difficult to make. I did figure out a pair of tongs all by my self I'm pretty proud of. I have two restraints $$$$$ and time. I am a supply clerk for a bank and only really have saturdays to work with. Pay sucks and time is rare in my world.I have been getting 1/2 " stock from a weilding shop at 50 cents a foot and scroungeing for other stock so I have that area covered I think. Free is always better though!
Joshua - Tuesday, 07/29/03 15:21:05 EDT

more info: I also only have the net at work so please be patient with me if it takes a little to get back to you!
Joshua - Tuesday, 07/29/03 15:39:46 EDT

scrap: I have also found rr spike/nails work well for knives.
Joshua - Tuesday, 07/29/03 15:56:57 EDT

free/plans ideas etc: Joshua,
Have you looked at the iForge page? hmmmm I think it is currently down due to much needed upgrades that the Guru is doing. ANyhoo, once it is back up look there, as there are lots of info on stuff you can make.
It sounds as if you are well on your way to learning and doing. Once you get to a pointto where you can afford more stuff you will also have a MUCH better idea of what you will truely need. For example, some of the smiths on here do this for a living and so as such they need things I would love to have but do not NEED. Like power hammers etc.
Also I would highly encourage you to contacting the local smithing groups and try to go to some of their meets as that is where the fastest learning occurs, as well as finding those tools etc you need. Besides it is great fun to meet all those around who love this as much as we do.
Ralph - Tuesday, 07/29/03 16:15:46 EDT

Thank you, Paw Paw, about the photo site. I was starting to wonder if I should abandon that, but didn't want to miss seeing the stuff everyone here puts up there.

Steve A - Tuesday, 07/29/03 18:06:00 EDT

Steve A.:

I just don't want us to be flooded with sporn, and I doubt if anyone else does either.
Paw Paw - Tuesday, 07/29/03 19:34:56 EDT

Metal: Joshua, I get my 1/2" stock free from the local "ornamental iron fab shop" They have to pay to get it hauled off, (low price o9f scrap you know...) and so are happy for me to stop by and fish a couple of hundred pounds of iron out of their scrap bin---I *always* ask and we make them a trinket every now and then.

I do *NOT* find that RR spikes make good knives as their carbon content is borderline at best. I prefer leaf or coil springs, files, patternwelded bandsaw blade and iron strapping, etc.

You done great setting up the forge on the cheap but that half dollar a foot stock is dragging down your scrounging rep...

BTW next time you are un-happy with your job---I was laid off after 14 years and would go back in an instant!

- Thomas Powers - Tuesday, 07/29/03 23:06:44 EDT

Duck Tape is just high tech ballin' wire.
- Scotty - Tuesday, 07/29/03 23:27:41 EDT

Anvils: I would like to find a used anvil. Something that not expensive cause im just starting out. I'm looking for it to be in the 110lbs up range. Hey I'm 15 and 50 to 100$ is what i'd pay if it's in good usable condition.
- Jonathan Eggermann - Wednesday, 07/30/03 07:25:12 EDT

Anvils: Jonathan,

Good anvil substatues can be found in lots of places. I would recomend just going to a scrap yard. A 100# piece of solid steel from a junked large machine such as a bulldozer etc or even just a piece of say 3" dia solid round stock will work well. Most of the forming on an anvil is in the center 4 square inches. The horn is for bending and drawing and the heal of the anvil with the hardy and pritchel holes are for holding tooling. So I say GET THEE TO A SCRAP YARD YOUNG SIR, TODAY!

As for finding a good used anvil, that depends a lot on where in the country you are. The North East coast has a lot more of them than say the South West U.S. As for price, well that is from "get this ***&*& thing out of here" to "it's gold plated and I won't sell for less than the cost of a new car" They are where you find em and how much you can get a deal for.
- Wayne Parris - Wednesday, 07/30/03 08:18:02 EDT

RR knives: I do admit that the knives i've been produceing are rather primative. There are thick, and heavy, but as i make mostly single piece constuction (made to be survival knives) and only charge about ten dollars for one; the few customers that have bought them loved them. They all have great balance too. Thanks for the compliment though! P>S. if you would like to make some good part time money give me an email at I recently started a company and need to expand. also I wrote a little somethin as follows.
Joshua - Wednesday, 07/30/03 09:15:26 EDT

Jonathan: Jonathan; there was a decent one in a junk store in Malmesbury England last time I was there, since you are in England, right, you could check it out.

Or to put it otherwise: Where the heck you located? Shipping of an anvil will blow your US$50-100 out of the water so you have to find a source local to yourself, we can't suggest one if we don't know.

If you are located in Ohio I can make several good suggestions.

- Thomas Powers - Wednesday, 07/30/03 09:20:11 EDT

little something: The fire burns, the smoke engulfs. hot metal sears the flesh. The glowing steel lights up the shop, reflecting in my eyes. The heavy sledge falls from the sky to crash against the steel. Sparks spray forth as endless waves of heat cascade across my skin. the color fades and the light begins to die. With a flick of wrist and thrust of arm the metal heats again. The steel rings as the anvil sings throughout the darkest heart of night; Bending twisting,and shaping steel, wrapping it around my will. Giving undying life to lifeless lumps to brighten hearts and souls. The fire dies as the sun does rise, pushing me toward my bed, giving hopes and dreams to reach for on the morrows eve.
Joshua - Wednesday, 07/30/03 09:25:16 EDT

pipes?: A friend of mine wants to give me some pipes, and some of those old metal fence posts they use for barb-wire fences. My question is is there any use in my takeing this stuff or is it just going to sit there taking up space? Uses other then the original that is!
Joshua - Wednesday, 07/30/03 13:37:19 EDT


Never turn down free steel. You'll find a use for it eventually. Usually about a week after you get tired of tripping over it and sell it for scrap. (wry grin)
Paw Paw - Wednesday, 07/30/03 13:46:48 EDT

pipes : this stuff seems to be mostly aluminum and zinc though. if any was copper i'd jump for it but that?
Joshua - Wednesday, 07/30/03 15:26:05 EDT

previously mentioned yahoo site: what's this? please be patient with me afterall i don't know a thing about much at all. here do I need to go to knock on the virtual door?
Joshua - Wednesday, 07/30/03 15:30:24 EDT


I use some aluminum, but zinc shouldn't really be forged. Inhaling the fumes from hot zinc can lead to heavy metal poisoning, also called metal fume fever.

I maintain a Yahoo site for Anvilfire, so that guys have a place to display pictures of things they have made. You can go to it by looking on the pull down menu for "User Gallery (Yahoo)". Fill out the application, and I'll approve you.

Then if you wish, you can create an album with your name on it to upload pictures of things you have made, or to show problems so we can help with them.
Paw Paw - Wednesday, 07/30/03 15:47:35 EDT

gasy metals: Thankyou for the alert are the any other metals i need to be aware of? i heard somethin about either brass or bronze be a no no to forge also!?
Joshua - Wednesday, 07/30/03 16:10:09 EDT


Brass and bronze can both be forged, but you need to work in a well ventilated area. Both alloys contain Copper, which is classified as a heavy metal. One contains zinc, the other contains tin. (I can never remember which goes with which! grin)

Also, never use used motor oil for a quencing fluid. It contains several different heavy metals, as well as some known carcinogens. Peanut Oil is OK and works well, and Automatic Transmission Fluid can be used in a well ventilated area.
Paw Paw - Wednesday, 07/30/03 16:29:35 EDT

used motor oil?: oops! can one use it if they have an exhaust fan directly over it?
Joshua - Wednesday, 07/30/03 16:37:18 EDT


Still not a good idea. You can get all the used peanut oil you want from any fast food place. All you have to do is strain it. I'd rather my shop smelled like peanut butter, anyway. (grin)
Paw Paw - Wednesday, 07/30/03 16:39:03 EDT

oil: and where can I get peanut oil in roughly five galloen amounts? how about linseed oil?
Joshua - Wednesday, 07/30/03 16:39:26 EDT

oil : never mind the p oil i'm too slow. linseed oil though?
Joshua - Wednesday, 07/30/03 16:40:35 EDT

Go to your local MacDonalds, Hardee's, Burger King, Arby's and ask if you can have some of their used deep fat fryer oil. You can probably get two or three five gallon buckets free. Then strain it through a coffee filter. You can also buy it new from Sam's, or WalMart. Lookin in the cooking oils section in the grocery aisles.

Linseed oil has some problems, if I remember correctly, but I can't remember what they are.
Paw Paw - Wednesday, 07/30/03 16:50:24 EDT

partings: Partings are such a sorrow, but I'm off for the day, catch ya'll tomorrow. Please answer the previos ? about linseed oil though, and thanx for the p oil source!!!!!!:)
Joshua - Wednesday, 07/30/03 16:52:24 EDT

oil: it would be cheaper to get the use fry oils form fastfood places or from resturants.

PPW, could it be that linseed oil breaks down at a lower temp?

Ralph - Wednesday, 07/30/03 17:07:05 EDT


Linseed Oil. Not sure, but I seem to have a vague recollection of toxins being released. Not sure what/how/why/when.
Paw Paw - Wednesday, 07/30/03 17:46:39 EDT

oil quench: How about synthetic motor oil? It is supposed to have a higher flash point. I **think** linseed oil has a fairly low flash point...
Ellen - Wednesday, 07/30/03 23:48:00 EDT


Used motor oil is used motor oil. Even the synthetics pick up contaminants. And when you get a barrel from the service station, it's got every kind or used oil, atf, etc. mixed together in it.

It's just a bad idea from the word go.
Paw Paw - Thursday, 07/31/03 00:45:08 EDT

PPW, I too seem to remember that it is a carcenogen causer...
But then again I am relying on one semi functioning brain cell.....
Ralph - Thursday, 07/31/03 00:51:35 EDT

Mail to your Yahoo account bounced. Contact me via e-mail, please.
Paw Paw - Thursday, 07/31/03 02:38:30 EDT

Anvils in the UK (again): Hi all.

I've been reading this for quite a while now, and finally took some classes with a local smith at the start of the year. My primary interest is bladesmithing - I've been doing stock removal knives for a couple of years now, and this seems a natural progression.

For them as is interested: There is a breakers yard, for want of a better term, in St Mary Bourne, Hampshire. I spent a happy few hours there a week or two back and came back with a Land Rover full of assorted stuff - anvil, post vice, steel cable...

They tend to have all sorts of tools available - I couldn't browse the tongs & tools because someone had parked 2 pallets of assorted steel in front of the shed where they're stored. They also have fly presses, but I'm not yet at the point of needing one. I think...

Regarding the anvil I bought - in lifting it from the LR & onto the stand, my brother & I estimated it at around 3cwt. This is complete overkill for what I need, but never mind! Rather too large than too small. There were 4 to choose from, a number of new ones which I'd guess at about 100lbs, 2 3cwt ones and one that was easily a third bigger. I used a small ball pein hammer (not having iny ball bearings handy), dropping the ball from around 3" height onto the face. The small ones went "donk", the one I bought bounced the hammer 3 or 4 times.

I've given the face a brief cleanup to remove surface rust, and it is obvious that this one has been the victim of a number of missed blows. Should I even be considering assaulting the thing with an angle grinder? No markings I can see, but no moulding lines either (couple of holes front & back - IIRC, this is something to do with moving the anvil around during manufacture?).

Thanks for any info,

Peter - Thursday, 07/31/03 06:14:10 EDT

photos: Goooood moooorning folks! For those that are interested I just put 3 pictures in my folder. they are of the one major project that I forged 2 years ago on this coming monday( the 4th of aug.) Enjoy!
Joshua - Thursday, 07/31/03 08:18:45 EDT


If you can live with the finish on the anvil, I would. If there are a few dings and dents, can you work around them? The holes you mentioned should be at the waist of the anvil, under the horn and under the heal and uasually under the base of the anvil. From what you discribe, you made a good choice of anvils. It sounds like you have a forged anvil and that is a good thing! Carefully clean the sides of the anvil and see if you can find any makers marks. It is probably a Peter Write, Wilkerson, or Mouse Hole anvil. Though there were many other makers in England. There also should be markings for "stone weight" in stones, quarter stones and pounds marked like this ##*#*## That will tell you the weight of the anvil when it was new. Anvils were sold by the pound and blacksmiths wanted their moneys worth. You wouldn't go to the store and pay for 3 pounds of meat and only get 2.5 pounds to take home would you?

As for the flypress, I would get one if the price was right. I am looking hard at them here in the States. New it seems that I can get a good size one for about $2000 delivered. They are great tools for many operations (nearly everything but drawing and upsetting) They are quiet, don't need a lot of power or a huge foundation. I am told that when looking for a flypress, make sure the screw is in good shape, it is the part that takes the most abuse.

Good luck,

- Wayne Parris - Thursday, 07/31/03 08:36:08 EDT

Gummy carb.: A friend of mine gave me a Lincoln welder that's been sitting a looong time unused. Its got a Kohler engine and the carb is one piece cast. Can't get a drop of gas through it. Tried blowing 1400# of helium through it (don't ask) didn't do a thing. Outside of soaking it for a year in gasoline any one have a tip for me? The rest of it seems just fine. I figure the old gas turned to glue and the rubber seals on the fuel line were rotted to bits.
Gronk - Thursday, 07/31/03 11:07:43 EDT

Re: UK Anvils: Thanks, Wayne - I think I'll leave the surface as is for now. After all, anything I do is subject to further finishing with files anyway...

I've cleaned down the sides to some extent with a handheld wire brush, still can't see any markings underneath.

As for picking a good anvil - I hope so, I was following as much as I could remember of the advice here! I figured the new ones were ASOs.

BTW - am I likely to be imagining things, or can I see a line where the face is joined to the body of the anvil?

Flypresses - I need to do my time with hand hammers for a whie yet (in my mind, at least); perhaps later on. From what the guys were saying, they have a regular visitor from (I think) Kentucky who buys up a large number of fly presses, swage blocks etc. and then ships them back Stateside. At least they aren't likely to end up as garden ornaments...

Thanks again,

Peter - Thursday, 07/31/03 11:47:37 EDT

sand?: Has any one ever heard of using white sand for flux? I have a friend that wants to try this and asked for my oppinion. I said I'd get back with him, cuase I had no idea.
Joshua - Thursday, 07/31/03 12:07:42 EDT

Nice project pix! Take good care of that forging, and it should last you for many, many good years! ;-)

eander4 - Thursday, 07/31/03 12:54:11 EDT

Eric: Well their is definatly no problem there. that particular welding will not come undone! She knws were all the food is not me!)
Joshua - Thursday, 07/31/03 13:37:12 EDT

flux: Joshua,
yes sand was often used as a flux( with wrought iron)
Ralph - Thursday, 07/31/03 14:24:28 EDT


Gronk, Soaking is the only think I can think of. Gas left too long dries out and forms a varnish type coating. Can be a real poorly bred female dog to get off.

Pete, That line you see is the forge weld where the tool steel surface plate was welded to the wrought iron body when the anvil was made. Kinda hard to identify without more info.

Joshua, Sand of any type will probably work. In an emergency, folks have used the red clay we have here in Carolina.

Looks like a long time project to me! (grin)

- Paw Paw - Thursday, 07/31/03 14:24:44 EDT

Anvils: Peter,
yes you most likely are seeing a line. If it is a forged anvil that will be one of the weld lines. ANvils were forged by taking several smaller pieces and forge welding together. I may have this backwards ( so what is new) but I think Mousehole anvils were made from 5 pieces. Peter Wright after working at Mousehole decided he could do it with 3 pieces so he left and made his own anvil company.
Ralph - Thursday, 07/31/03 14:27:57 EDT

gummy: Grionk,

About the only thing I can say is it now scrap. SO you should immediately send it to me for proper disposal. You pay shipping and I will not charge my usual disposal fee......(VBG)
Seems like the carb has got to be able to have the internals worked on. If so have you tried soaking in penetrating oil? ANd then trying to remoce the insides?

Ralph - Thursday, 07/31/03 14:30:47 EDT

dang it!: Sorry about the mis-spelling of your name GRONK
Ralph - Thursday, 07/31/03 14:34:26 EDT

ralph/ppw: Does sand work as well as borax? would it be an acceptable, yet cheaper alternative to borax?
Joshua - Thursday, 07/31/03 16:03:36 EDT

borax: what about agricultural borax? I heard a renfaire smith say something about it! does it work as well as the stuff I get from walmart?
Joshua - Thursday, 07/31/03 16:06:32 EDT

see yall: well folks I gotta run and to night I actually get to feed the addiction! yeah!!!!! I getta forge!!!!!boy howdie I can't wait! signing off. please let me know what you think about the borax thing.
Joshua - Thursday, 07/31/03 16:36:16 EDT


Personal opinion here, I don't think sand works as well as Borax.

I just use the plain borax from the laundry section. If you want, I'll give you the formula for a flux using borax that my grandfather used, but I warn you it STINKS when you use it.
Paw Paw - Thursday, 07/31/03 16:39:20 EDT

flux: If you are going to use a flux use 20 Mule team borax. You will not find a cheaper quality flux. Sand works well with wrought iron but not nearly as well for steel nor mild steel. What is agricultural borax? Unless if you want large quanities I think 20 Mule will be the ticket
Ralph - Thursday, 07/31/03 17:37:46 EDT

trenton anvils: Could one of you with an anvil book look up a number for me? I bought a small trenton, 101lbs, & the number is A20356. I'd kinda like to know an age on it if possible. Thanks,
- Mike S. - Thursday, 07/31/03 23:16:05 EDT


The A isn't part of the Serial number. It was manufactured in 1901.
Paw Paw - Friday, 08/01/03 00:09:02 EDT

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