Some tools to drool over.  Image (c) 1998 Jock Dempsey WELCOME to the
Virtual Hammer-In!

This page is open to ALL for the purpose of advancing blacksmithing.
Please read the RULES before posting a message.
NOTE: This IS NOT the Guru page!

WHY THREE FORUMS? Well, this is YOUR blacksmithing forum to use for whatever you wish within the rules stated above. It is different than the Slack-Tub Pub because the messages are permanently posted and archived.
This page is NOT a chat - it is a "message board"

Our chat, the (Slack-Tub Pub), is immediate but the record of it temporary. DO NOT post permanent messages there. We refresh the "log" every 24 hours now and your message will be lost.

The Guru's Den is where I and several others try to answer ALL your blacksmithing and metalworking questions to us.

Jock Dempsey -- webmaster at 07/27/98, 03/01/99, 05/20/2000, 06/16/2000

Hi Everyone! I am new to blacksmithing and was wondering if anyone knew a good source for used Anvils, forges, vises, etc.? I live in Arcata, CA which is near Eureka and not too near much else! I know I may have to travel a bit out of the area to find something!

Tera -- mar at - Thursday, 03/01/01 06:22:55 GMT


The forge you can build yourself out of scraps. Check the plans page for the brake drum forge plans.

The other things, anvils, vises, tongs, etc. are apparently in short supply on the west cost. At least from what I hear. So you might want to contact Bruce Wallace of Wall Metal. He is an advertiser here on Anvil fire. Bruce sells used equipment and will deal honestly with you. Bruce also carries some new equipment, while Kayne and Son, and Centaur Forge, (also advertisers here at anvilfire) carry almost all new equipment.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Thursday, 03/01/01 15:24:13 GMT

Hi from north Arkansas. Does anyone in this region of the country know of a Di-acro multi-purpose manual bender (used) for sale? thanks ww

wayne -- wawitcher at - Friday, 03/02/01 02:08:27 GMT

Paw Paw...I made a batch of super quinch from the recipe posted here so many times to quinch twisted railroad spike oyster real well...sooo I thought,, bet this would really harden 1095...Heated to non magnetic and plunged into a 130 deg F superquinch..the metal made sounds I havent heard before and dont care to hear again and then that sound that is so retrieved a 10" Chefs knife from the steaming liquid with 3 well defined cracks from blade edge and visable for an inch or more toward the spine...ah! we live and learn.

R, Guess -- RanDGuess at - Friday, 03/02/01 03:32:16 GMT

Anyone who has sent me their web site URL in the past, please send it to me again. I lost the whole &%$(&&_)( file! (angry frown)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Friday, 03/02/01 04:21:18 GMT

Dave: Both are excellent. Gunther and Hoffman are both clear and good teachers as well as good smiths.

Pete F - Sunday, 03/04/01 08:25:59 GMT

Dave: Both are excellent. Gunther and Hoffman are both clear and good teachers as well as good smiths.

Pete F - Sunday, 03/04/01 08:55:03 GMT

Dave: Both are excellent. Gunther and Hoffman are both clear and good teachers as well as good smiths.

Pete F - Sunday, 03/04/01 09:04:26 GMT


See you learned the hard way too! (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Sunday, 03/04/01 14:44:42 GMT

sorry abt the multi-post

PF - Monday, 03/05/01 08:28:21 GMT

Has anyone on this forum had any dealings with Norm Larson in the past few months? If so please contact me via email. I have a question I would like to ask.

Pete F. Thanks. Would you recommend one over the other for a hobby smith of beginning to intermediate ability?

Dave White -- Dwhite at - Monday, 03/05/01 17:32:48 GMT


Stuff happens, don't sweat the small stuff. (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Monday, 03/05/01 18:01:37 GMT

Scott McCartney,

Please send me an email address, I've lost yours.


Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Monday, 03/05/01 19:04:30 GMT

Paw Paw -- Fingers going to fast..URL I made a hard copy of my emails and apges through the address book.. heres mine ready I type slow for you {grin} .. Have a better day tomorrow sir..

Barney -- barney at - Tuesday, 03/06/01 02:32:33 GMT


Got it. But you've got an extra .ca on the end. Got your fingers going too fast again, didn't you? (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Tuesday, 03/06/01 04:55:27 GMT

tera-- used to be-- and maybe still is-- a smithing equipment outfit in Whittier. if it it's not, perhaps somebody there might know where the gear went/is. Try (this is from my files of 15 years ago or so)
The Village Blacksmithie Supplies
C.A. "Spike" Miller
12117 Ramsey Drive
Whittier, California 90605
Also, an orthopaedic surgeon in Camp Pendleton who is an ardent amateur smith came into possession of a huge old shop full of gigantic production shop equipment, and was selling off (a year or so back) what he did not need:
"David Schiff, M.D."
Try these sources or, as Senor Wilson suggests, bodge up your own stuff.

miles undercut -- longarc at - Wednesday, 03/07/01 01:28:01 GMT

something--the Van Allen belt, perhaps, intruding upon the transpolarity there in Virginia-- chopped the address off the good doctor's name:
"David Schiff, M.D."
If this is some kind of site block, look him up in the Camp Pendleton phone book.

miles undercut -- longarc at - Wednesday, 03/07/01 01:37:51 GMT

tera-- here's another try on the doc's E-mail address (as of maybe a year ago):
dschiff at

miles undercut -- longarc at - Wednesday, 03/07/01 14:51:27 GMT

My friend and I are just starting to experiment in sword making and we were wondering if you could offer us a few tips, such as grades of steel we should be using, forging methods, or recommended tang. Thankyou.

brad -- bradlywithnoe at - Wednesday, 03/07/01 16:00:13 GMT

I've heard of a sword maker that can make swords that are able to be bent to 90% angles and will retern like they wernt even bent and with these swords he can chop through concreat and uther swords without eney damage to the blade. I was wondering if eney one new the name of this gentilmen or how this is posible?

nathaniel -- chukles24 at - Wednesday, 03/07/01 16:28:25 GMT

Nathaniel, Its not possible, unless you consider "movie magic" reality. Don't believe what you see on TV or in the movies OR hear on most Internet forums. This is an ancient myth that Paw-Paw provided me the answer to:

"His name is Th0r, He is the blacksmith to the Norse Gods, He won't tell anyone how he does it, and he doesn't make swords for retail sale. Unless you can get Cerebus to take you across the lake and back, then he might make you one . . ."

Jock D. -- guru at - Wednesday, 03/07/01 18:34:05 GMT

Brad, Start small. A good thin kitchen knife or fillet knife with the proper temper that takes and holds a good edge is as difficult to make as any blade. A hunting knife or letter opener has the same parts as a sword. If you can't do a good job on something of reasonable size then something as large as a sword will be impossible.

The grade of steel is less important than the skill and knowledge that goes into working it. There are many good books on knife making and bladesmithing. Start there. You also need to be up to speed in general smithing before starting on tool and cutlery steels. See the Getting Started article on the guru page for a reading list.

Tangs should be as large as possible. A shoulder just sufficient to stop the guard. The inside corner should be radiused as much as possible and the guard to match. Just beyond the guard there should be as little reduction as possible to clear the inside of the grip. A large radius should be used again. Then the tang can taper to whatever end is needed.

Many times small tangs are used. This is both weak and dangerous. At least one death of a bystander of mock battle has been reported. A sword broke off at the tang and became a projectile . . .

Jock D. -- guru at - Wednesday, 03/07/01 18:53:41 GMT

Filters. . The software that this forum runs on is rather primitive. It filters ALL HTML. That is to prevent folks from pasting in advertisements, banner links or code that has errors crashing the forum. I spend too much time fixing MY errors and don't have time to fix everyone else's.

There is no filtering of email or web address. However, the system does not make them "hot". That takes another level of sophistication and is also prone to abuse.

Anything that you surround with angle brackets is considered HTML. SO, if you paste in an address that has someone's name WITH the address part in angle brackets the address will be removed. Leave off the brackets and the address will display perfectly.

Jock D. -- guru at - Wednesday, 03/07/01 19:06:09 GMT

Actually Thor was NOT the blacksmith to the Norse Gods. He was one of the Gods, and yes he used a hammer as a weapon(Molinjar) But the blacksmiths who made the hammer and Odin's spear and other goodies were made by the dwarfs Brok and Eitri.

Ralph -- ralphd at - Thursday, 03/08/01 22:48:21 GMT

Paw Paw Yep I see it.. Oh well.. Can you and JD get together and sent me your mailing address. I have a newspaper clipping that may interest you..Can sent it email attachment but it will be a large one. Don't have thumnail program.. Let me know about doing the email thing.. TTYL

Barney -- barney at vianet - Thursday, 03/08/01 22:56:57 GMT

Nitpicking on mythology - Paw Paw, Cerberus was a Greek or Roman myth, and he was a multi-headed dog. Charon was the boatman who took souls down the river Styx. I think Viking dead just followed a road across a bridge to the hall of Hel, or were snatched up by Valkyries on flying horses and taken to Valhalla in Asgard.

Stormcrow -- hurg - Friday, 03/09/01 03:05:54 GMT

Ralph and Stormcrow,

Pick, Pick, Pick! Andybody that would ask the question that was in answer to, wouldn't know the difference, anyway! (grin)


On the way via e-mail.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Friday, 03/09/01 05:12:51 GMT

thank you for seting me straight about that blacksmith i didn't think it was posible but i had read on one of the sites i've been looking up that some one had and neede to know if it was true. so thank you again.

nathaniel -- chukles24 at - Friday, 03/09/01 16:51:30 GMT

I'm a maintenance engineer looking for some enlightenment from a forging wizard. I got some zinc plated forged steel flanges that needed to be disassembled and installed from the piping system of an antique 1830's house/mansion (now a museum) every 10 months which eat up my maintenance budget every year. The piping system with the flanges are not used anymore but remain due to aesthetic and historical reasons. I can't paint them, cover them with epoxy based coatings nor galvanized them (matt finish). The original zinc plating bright finish need to be visible but needs maintenance regularly.

I heard a process called zinc anodizing can help me solve this problem but I can't find any references about this topic nor any authority inthis process. Can anybody help? By the way, the museum is by the sea overlooking a coastline.


Anthony the Burn -- alfrasteel at - Saturday, 03/10/01 15:40:40 GMT

Jamestown Settlement hosts Military Through the Ages, on March 17 and 18 (Sat. & Sun.) 2001. This is one of the best and longest running reenactment time-line events. Markland will be providing the Anglo-Saxon and Viking camps. From there, it runs all the way up to the local Virginia National Guard MP unit. This is one tough juried competition, with entries in the best camp, cooking, clothing and field/tactical emonstrations. Lots of gunfire and other fun stuff, plus some suttlers through the ages. Lots of weapons, armor and hardware, a nice smithy in the fort, and usually a smith amoung the suttlers.

I'll be there with our early medieval forge, making spear points, in the Anglo-Saxon camp. Let me know if any of you are coming, so we can prepare our defenses.

The state troll charge is about $10.50, but they have a nice set up with museum, ships, and fort that makes it worth it (even when we're not there). You might even learn something.

The Jamestown/Yorktown website is at:

Visit your National Parks:

Go viking:

Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- asylum at - Saturday, 03/10/01 16:38:43 GMT

Sorry, Mythology is not my strong point. . Stormcrow, why don't you write us an article about the hammer wielding gods. We'll post it on our new story page with other myths and legends. .

I'm also looking for good graphics or an idea for an archeometalurgy icon/logo. .

Jock D. -- guru at - Saturday, 03/10/01 18:18:10 GMT

Anthony, I don't understand your problem. Unused galvanized parts should be relatively stable for decades in an interior environment.

Now there is a HUGE difference between hot galvanized parts and "zinc plated". Modern zinc plated hardware has just enough zinc on the surface to keep it from rusting in inventory. It does almost no good in use.

If the problem is that someone wants that "bright" look than they need a dose of reality. Galvanizing rapidly turns flat grey and hot dip is often that way when new. If the parts have threaded fits then there will be no of little galvanizing there and the natural appearance would be rusting at the exposed areas.

There IS a zinc anodizing process but it produces a yellow ocher color and is generaly used only on solid zinc parts.

Many epoxy materials cause corrosion rather than prevent it. It also reacts with chemicaly active metals like zinc.

Jock D. -- guru at - Saturday, 03/10/01 18:33:16 GMT

Nathaniel: Check out my opinion of "Super Swords" in the sword article in the Anvilfire Armoury section. We all hear about them, but who's actually seen/used/tested them? Remember, exagerated advertising has a LONGGGG history, and the Keds tennis shoes didn't make me run any faster as a kid. (Large, unpleasant people, like track coaches and platoon sargeants made me run faster, but that's another story.)

Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- aswylum at - Saturday, 03/10/01 22:46:36 GMT

Aah, Atli?

That's spelled sErgeants.

Former Plt. Sgt. Wilson (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Sunday, 03/11/01 01:24:20 GMT

sory to ask this but how do i get there?

nathaniel -- chukles24 at - Sunday, 03/11/01 05:06:10 GMT


On the left side of the anvilfire main page (home) you will see a menu bar. Click on the 21st Century page. Scroll down that page till you get to the Armor Series. Bruce's articles are listed.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Sunday, 03/11/01 13:28:58 GMT

thank you

nathaniel -- chukles24 at - Sunday, 03/11/01 17:15:17 GMT

Jock D.,

Sorry I failed to mention this earlier, the flanges are original old ones when the house was built. Its not used now but its over 100 years old. Will it be possible to have the old flanges copied but using solid zinc parts by casting then have them zinc anodised. The yellow ocher color might be overcomed if I used dyes like aluminum dyes, if any?

Where can I find how zinc anodising works? Is it a new technolgy of surface finishing or anodizing? Is there another name for it? Why can't I find any significant number of web sites about zinc anodizing? Why can't zinc anodizing work on galvanized surfaces? Where can I get more info about this finish?

Being ignorant is embarassing, not doing anything is even more. Thanks again for your response to my problem.

Anthony the Burn -- - Sunday, 03/11/01 18:01:26 GMT

I'm an English Blacksmith looking for some American Smiths I can visit or work with for a week or two this coming summer. I am researching the differences between American and British smithing techniques so that I can publish a report which will be of benefit to everyone. Both nations have long traditions in this craft, and lots to teach one another.

This is a serious research project and I have been awarded the funds to carry it out by the Winston Churchill Memorial Trust. All I need are some co-operative colleagues who would be willing to let me visit or work with them during June to August 2001. (I am not looking for financial remuneration or free board and lodging, just willing transatlantic colleagues.)

John Woodward -- faberjohn at - Sunday, 03/11/01 18:27:53 GMT

As Jock said above, if they are zinc plated those parts should not be shiny anyway. Are you sure they're coated with zinc? Nickel plating would work, and stay shiny much longer.

If they were indeed originally coated with zinc, it would have been hot-dip galvanizing. That can be polished, but it WILL turn dull gray. It's SUPPOSED to. If whoever runs the house insists on the parts being shiny, tell them to get the parts nickel or chrome plated. Zinc, no matter whether galvanized, plated, or anodized, will NOT stay shiny for long. If they insist on zinc AND shiny, tell them to polish the parts themselves! Oh, and anodizing is not a historically correct treatment, if the folks that run the place are interested in historical accuracy. I'm a historical archaeologist, by the way. Hope this helps, it isn't meant as a criticism!

Alan L -- longmire at - Sunday, 03/11/01 18:57:34 GMT

Anthony, if you have solid zinc, or zinc coated or plated anything, old or new, make sure there are no electrical connections to the parts in any way. Electricians have a nasty habit of grounding to piping systems. Zinc is very far down the galvanic scale and will be sacrificial to almost every other metal. If the piping goes into the ground, install "isolation unions" or isolation flanges to make sure there is no electrical potential from the pipe in the ground corroding.

Tony -- tca_b at milwpc - Monday, 03/12/01 00:57:22 GMT

I am looking for the approx value of a Champion 401 forge with a Champion 400 blower on it

Greg -- GregSSmith at - Monday, 03/12/01 03:11:45 GMT

John Woodward
I have a blacksmith Shop in Texas,and would be happy to have you come spend some time with me at my shop
I do custom work (tabels beds railing gates ect)
(dont do Knives or swords or armor)

Bill Epps -- B-Epps at - Monday, 03/12/01 08:11:48 GMT

im looking for someone to come to my shop and give me pointers....teach or whatever...i live in maryland and i resharpen tool steel wanting to get into bladesmithing....have acess to large stores of high carbon tool steel....

mordeith -- mordeith74 at - Monday, 03/12/01 20:54:01 GMT

oops i got my emails mixed really interested in learning anyoone will i have a whole shop full of tools that i could be willing to trade/sell for a master smith to take me under his|her wing......

mordeith -- mordeith74 at - Monday, 03/12/01 21:01:04 GMT

oops i got my emails mixed really interested in learning anyoone will i have a whole shop full of tools that i could be willing to trade/sell for a master smith to take me under his|her wing......

mordeith -- mordeith74 at - Monday, 03/12/01 21:01:27 GMT

I have a 50# powerhammer that needs a new home....Great shape....Located in San Diego, CA.....$2000....e-mail for info and photos.....

B. Dugan -- braddugan at - Wednesday, 03/14/01 06:31:25 GMT

Notice to all,

Jock has phone problems as a result of all the rain, so the demo that was postponed from last night to tonight is
cancelled. Hopefully the phones will be fixed as soon as possible.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Thursday, 03/15/01 21:11:59 GMT

Paw Paw KNOWS Why Redheads Are Better Than Blondes

If you love a Redhead, set her free.....if she follows you everywhere you go, she pitches a tent in your front lawn,
and puts your new girlfriend in the hospital, she's yours.

Q: How do you get a redhead to argue with you?

A: Say something

Q: How do you get a redhead's mood to change?

A: Wait 10 seconds

Q: What's safer: a redhead or a piranha?

A: The piranha. They only attack in schools.

Q: How do you know a guy at the beach has a redhead for a girlfriend?

A: She has scratched "stay off MY TURF!" on his back with her nails.

Q: What do you call a Redhead with an attitude?

A: Normal

Q: What do you call a woman who knows where her husband is every night?

A: A redhead!

Q: How do you know when your redhead has forgiven you?

A: She stops washing your clothes in the toilet bowl

Q: How do you know when a redhead has been using a computer?

A: There's a hammer embedded in the monitor.

Q: What do you call a blonde in a room full of Redheads?

A: Insignificant

Only two things are necessary to keep a redhead happy.

1. Let her think she is having her own way, and

2. Let her have it.

And finally my personal favorite and the one that ALWAYS gets me in trouble with MY redhead because she knows that I speak from experience:

Blondes may HAVE more fun, but redheads ARE more fun!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Friday, 03/16/01 14:47:44 GMT

Paw-Paw >Want to meet your Redhead < {grin}. Of course Paw-Paw you can also come along, you can buy the coffee....

Barney -- barney at - Friday, 03/16/01 21:14:36 GMT


Picture in e-mail. (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Friday, 03/16/01 23:08:08 GMT

We supply Pocahontas stoker coal. We are located in Elkton, VA on US 33, and our website address is Listed on our website are the types of coal we sell and prices.

Monger Coal & Oil, Inc. -- mail at - Saturday, 03/17/01 04:53:23 GMT

Wondering does anybody know where we might find plans for building a gas forge on the net???

karl &Eadaoin -- balorforge at - Saturday, 03/17/01 13:21:28 GMT

P.S. happy Paddys Day 2 you all out there

Karl & Eadaoin -- balorforge at - Saturday, 03/17/01 13:23:19 GMT

Paw Paw got it..Now its coffee meeting time. ?? {grin}. I hope she keeps you inline.?

Barney -- barney at - Saturday, 03/17/01 13:32:39 GMT

Karl, this is one of the most referred to pages for atmospheric forges, for other sources look in the links on this site as well as the 21st Century page for a whole lot of stuff

Mills -- mills_fam2 at - Saturday, 03/17/01 18:44:26 GMT

Paw Paw; I'd always thought you looked they way you do cause of blacksmithing accidents---now I find out you done been playing with fire---probably without using any safety equipment either!

Hope you survive her reading about this on the net---and if you don't mention to her that I'd be happy to clean out all that metal junk for her...


Thomas Powers -- thomas_powers at - Tuesday, 03/20/01 14:21:57 GMT


Survival's not a problem. I've never yet started a fire I couldn't hose out! (VBG)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Tuesday, 03/20/01 14:51:32 GMT

Jock - I really don't know too much about the individual smithin' gods. The books I read never did cover them much. All I gathered was that mythical metalsmiths tended to be either a.) a cripple or b.) a dwarf.

The speculation on the reasons for many crippled smiths included there being one or two crippled smiths who were good and crept into legend, and that perhaps if a strong man was too crippled to be a soldier or work at other trades requiring an ambulatory condition, he could still swing a hammer at the forge.

The Norse and Egyptians both thought dwarves were really good at metalworking. The Norse, Teutons, etc. had several races of dwarves that liked to mine and then turn what they mined into wonderful objects. I think it was Atli that suggested that a human dwarf's small stature would make it easier to move around in the small tunnels of a mine. This got transmuted into myth.

Just some ideas.

Stormcrow -- jbhelm at worldnet.att.netSPAMISBAD - Tuesday, 03/20/01 16:19:49 GMT

HI been a Farrier for 29 .Give Me some feed back.

FERGIE -- FERGNSUE at - Thursday, 03/22/01 04:15:05 GMT

HI been a Farrier for 29 .Give Me some feed back.

FERGIE -- FERGNSUE at - Thursday, 03/22/01 04:15:39 GMT


Welcome to Anvilfire.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Thursday, 03/22/01 07:14:48 GMT

Mordeith: Sounds like you should link up with the Blacksmith's Guild of the Potomac or the Central Maryland Blacksmith's Guild. Check the ABANA link.

Where in Maryland do you live? It's not a big state, but we've got this Bay in the way, sometimes. I'm in St. Mary's County, betwixt the Potomac, Patuxent and the Chesapeake, but the BGOP and CMBG have folks all over the place.

Bruce Blackistone (Atli) -- asylum at - Friday, 03/23/01 18:39:14 GMT

Hello All, I am looking for help on Hawkeye power hammers.
I would like to talk with owners as well as get ANY pictures or printed material that is out there to help with a rebuild of a small #2. I would also be happy to forward anything I come up with to interested parties. Thanks sincerely,

peto -- pdehahn at - Sunday, 03/25/01 18:45:52 GMT


ss -- ss at - Friday, 03/30/01 23:00:44 GMT


ss -- ss at - Friday, 03/30/01 23:01:00 GMT


That deafening silence you hear is the sound of massive ignorance! (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Saturday, 03/31/01 01:24:10 GMT

I forget who showed me a plate of steel with a wooden carved arrowhead going through a little hole in the plate. The hole is just slightly larger than the arrow shaft. The arrow is not real, but a small carving, an analogue of the real thing. The carved arrowhead is quite a bit wider than the hole, as is the carved fletching. I asked the two guys who showed it to me how it was done. They laughed like hell. "Aw, it's easy!", is all they would say. I saw this thing some years ago, and I'm still coginatin' 'n' ruminatin'. Any ideas, anyone? Greetings to All Virtual Hammerheads, Frank Turley of TURLEY FORGE

Frank Turley -- nudahonga at - Saturday, 03/31/01 03:46:28 GMT


Welcome to the Virtual Hammerin at Glad to have you here!

Was the arrow head glued to the shaft after the shaft was passed through the plate, and the glue joint disguised in some way?

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Saturday, 03/31/01 03:49:51 GMT


I'm with Paw-Paw. Its eisier to hide a glue joint in wood than a weld in iron.

On the other hand, we see things in fancy ironwork that are designed to look impossible. Such as a dragon head forged on the end of a scroll that passes through itself. Of course we KNOW how its done. But the difficulty level is only appreciated by other smiths, not the general public. The public sees it as a curiosity but we see it as a chalange, "See if YOU can do this!". Tom Bredlow and Yellin both put at least one of these in almost every major piece of work. Just to tease other smiths for centuries. . .

Glad to see that someone else besides John Neary has a PC in in NM!

Jock D. -- webmaster at - Saturday, 03/31/01 04:46:39 GMT

dunno how I should take that, Jock, but for the record, it is with a smile. Frank, don't you believe this heresy about the glue for a single moment. Fie! Nay, in truth, the arrow has to be shot by a Zen warrior, pure of heart and spirit, in the cause of honor and justice, and-- this is important, now, dammit, pay attention!-- holding his mouth just right. Only then will it work, but, ah, then it will pierce the hardest and thickest of steel plate.

john neary -- jneary at - Saturday, 03/31/01 04:58:31 GMT


> Only then will it work, but, ah, then it will pierce the hardest and > thickest of steel plate.

And Jock calls ME a romantic! (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Saturday, 03/31/01 05:01:51 GMT

Getting back to Brad & Nathaniel & Swords.......there is a story, a bit of lore to think about. The apprentice had been with the old smith for a couple of years and declared that he wanted to make a sword. It was about lunch time, and the ol' man tells the kid to have a go at it while he's having a bite. The apprentice works through lunch and when the master returns, the kid is working on a smallish piece of steel. He tells the master he has decided to make a knife instead. At the work day's end, the young man says that he wants to continue with his project and requests permission to stay late. After his evening meal, the master is curious to see how the lad is doing, so he enters the shop. He says to the boy, "What are you making now?" The apprentice answers, "I decided to make a toothpick!"

Frank Turley -- nudahonga at - Saturday, 03/31/01 14:11:01 GMT


Sounds like the apprentice bit off more than he could chew! (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Saturday, 03/31/01 14:15:06 GMT

need information on little giant hammers where would you find the info.

steve robb -- l.n.s.3 at - Saturday, 03/31/01 17:40:55 GMT

Little Giant information.

Contact Sid Sudimier. I can't find his number at the moment, possibly some one else will have it handy.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Saturday, 03/31/01 19:47:23 GMT

Hello Paw-Paw, Thanks for responding! Any message is better than nothing. I was thinking that I had broken some rule about posting a question . I am not surprised that there is little to be said on the topic of horizontal helve power hammers as everyone
have asked so far gives me that "look" ???? I'll just keep trying.
Thanks again,

peto -- p.dehahn at - Saturday, 03/31/01 20:40:13 GMT


No problem, I just wish I had some information for you. If you can email me a picture of the Hawkeye, I *MIGHT* be able to find some info for you.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Saturday, 03/31/01 21:08:30 GMT

Frank Turley, My grandpa has a wooden apple with an arrow through it also. He said that the arrow head was soaked in hot water & squeezed in a vise or clamp then pushed/pounded through the hole, then the head will expand again. Sounds reasonable to me, but then again the glue joint sounds eaiser. Just another possibility.

Mike Roth -- emeraldisleforge at - Monday, 04/02/01 13:12:23 GMT

Frank Turley, My grandpa has a wooden apple with an arrow through it also. He said that the arrow head was soaked in hot water & squeezed in a vise or clamp then pushed/pounded through the hole, then the head will expand again. Sounds reasonable to me, but then again the glue joint sounds eaiser. Just another possibility.

Mike Roth -- emeraldisleforge at - Monday, 04/02/01 13:12:49 GMT

oxygen tank gauge

Due to my habit of freqenting flea markets I have a number (8)of back mount tank presure gauges for sale. made by Continental Precision Instruments in Ft. Lauderdale Fla they are for sale to the first 8 responses I get for the same price I paid ($1.00)+ shipping ($3-4) I will post again as soon as they are gone first come first served

Frank the arrow throgh the plate is done by first carving the arrow then steaming and compressing the wood in a vice there is a good example of this in the book "puzzles" by Eric Slocum he also has serveral examples of three and four piece "blacksmith puzzles"


Mark Parkinson -- mparkinson2 at - Monday, 04/02/01 13:35:32 GMT

I just bought an anvil at auction and I am very interested in finding out anything I can about it, but unfortunately, I can't even read the name of the manufacture. It weighs 140#, has what I think is a date on the base of 1945 or 1946 (if this is a date, was this anvil purchased for wartime use?)and a number on the opposite end of the base of "14" (is this a size?). The emblem is an oval with an arm and hammer in it. Above the arm and hammer is the name, but I can only read the last letter, "N". Below the arm and hammer is the standard US Patent Pending stuff.

I am interested in knowing what this anvil was designed for originally, who made it, the quality, who would have bought such an anvil, and anything else about the history of this tool.

I collect woodworking tools, and with this anvil have started with blacksmithing tools. I restore and use my antique woodworking tools, and hope do the same with the anvil (next purchase - portable forge).

Anything you can tell me would be greatly appreciated. I am willing to bet someone at least knows which company used the arm and hammer as a symbol.

Thanks much

Brett Holzschuh (holzschu at

brett -- holzschu at - Monday, 04/02/01 13:52:32 GMT

Mike & Mark, Thenks for the latest feedback on the arrow-thru-the-plate thing. I *knew* it had to be "easy". A former student of mine actually got a little depressed about this issue. He couldn't understand why the old-timers would not share the secret with me. Har de har. My first thought was to take a withe of the right shape with two adjoining branches for the arrowhead and two adjoining for the "feathers". Do some preliminary carving, force the arrowhead through the hale, finish carving the arrowhead. The wook cures and gets a little harder, later. I do appreciate friend, John Neary's, metaphysical input, however. Best Wishes to the Hammerheads. Frank T.

Frank Turley -- nudahonga at - Monday, 04/02/01 14:02:07 GMT

Anvil, sounds like a Vulcan anvil, (but that metallurgy student still has my copy of "Anvils in America". Vulcans were cast (but not just cast iron) and are a common school anvil around these parts.

The ones I have seen and used seemed to be a bit soft; but other folks have had good experiences with them. What kind of info do you want to know?


Thomas Powers -- thomas_powers at - Monday, 04/02/01 14:47:47 GMT

O2 Gauges: Mark sent me picutres. Look good. They ARE new as represented. Note that they are back mount. A great deal.

Wood arrow in Iron: Steaming sounds possible but it doesn't make the wood much more compressable. It DOES make it very pliable. It also only lasts while the piece is hot. You have to work VERY quickly with small pieces. Now the arrow in the apple is easier. A glue joint could be easily hidden IN the apple and still have lots of room for the arrow the slide back and fourth. As long as it didn't slide far enough to see the joint.

Years ago my son tied knots in some young green Sycamore branches. . I'll have to go see if they have matured. . .

Vulcan Anvil: Answered on guru page.

Jock D. -- webmaster at - Monday, 04/02/01 15:53:58 GMT

Frank,I have done this trick before myself, and Mike is pretty close. You carve out the shaft, but leave the back unfinished so you can safely hit it, also leave the arrow head a little rough you want someting that looks very squarish still because you will be squashing it in a vise, but there must be a point and it shouldn't be too much oversized. Then its time to put the head in the vise and SLOWLY begin to compress it, the larger the head, the more slowly you must go or it will crack. The trick is to have the growth rings of the wood going across the smallest part of the arrowhead (this is hard to explain), looking straight on at the arrowhead, it is roughly a rectangle, the growth rings must be oriented so they run across the smaller span of the rectangle. To do this, you must have quartersawn wood or use a much larger piece and orient the carving diagonally. Back to the squwashing- after the head is compressed enough so it will fit through (this is all done with DRY wood), simply drive it through the hole, soak the head in warm water, and it will be back to original size withing hours. Let it dry and have at it finishing the head and tail. Be sure to make the arrow long enough so that none of it is permanently hidden in the blank, so people can examine and see that there is no glue joints. Hope you succeed, sorry this is so wordy, could show you in 2 minutes, oh well....

Sunny and warm in NH.

Chad -- NHBlacksmith at - Thursday, 04/05/01 00:34:43 GMT

Hello All.
Myself and a friend are organising a couple of Craft Fairs in Southampton this year. We'd *really* like to have a blacksmith working, selling and demonstrating there. Any ideas about how we'd contact one?
Many thanks,

Peter Harris

Peter Harris -- pharris at - Thursday, 04/05/01 07:07:55 GMT

Peter, I assume from your e-mail address you are in the UK. Contact the British Artist Blacksmith Association.

Now, if you would like a bunch of American smiths to come over and put on a demonstration we would be glad to put on a fine show! Just get out your checkbook! ;-)

Jock D. -- guru at - Thursday, 04/05/01 17:59:18 GMT

Chad, You explanation is perfect. . Yeah, no trick at all. Just brute force on top of skill (picking the right wood, using the right alignment). Now if you could explain those tricks David Copperfield was doing last night. . . ;)


Jock D. -- guru at - Thursday, 04/05/01 18:02:45 GMT

does anyone know sid sudiemiers e mail address?

steve robb - Friday, 04/06/01 00:04:37 GMT

For Steve robb. LITTLE GIANT, 420 4th Corso, Nebraska City, NE 68410.

Frank Turley -- nudahonga at - Friday, 04/06/01 00:35:07 GMT

The Perry, Oklahoma Community Spring Fest will include a Rural Heritage Festival at the Cherokee Strip Museum. This will be Saturday May 5,2001. Again this year Kay Bond, Museum Director, has invited members of the Saltfork Craftsmen ABA and others interested in blacksmithing to set up an open air blacksmithing shop and demonstrate smithing craft under the museum's spacious trees. Set up time should be around 9:00 AM; the Festival is scheduled to be over latein the afternoon. The Cherokee Strip Museum is located just East of I-35 on Fir Avenue (the North Perry exit -- Exit Number 186) and directly across from the Braum's store. If you are coming into Perry from the East, stay on Hwy 64 (Fir Ave.) all the way through town. The Museum is on the far West edge of the city. In the past, we have had several Saltfork members at the Rural Heritage Festival
and a number of forges going. Bring your portable smithing equipment or just come, join in, and use the equipment we will have on hand. This should be a day of fun in a great rural setting.

Jim Carothers
colonel at

Jim Carothers -- colonel at - Friday, 04/06/01 01:12:09 GMT

Hello All, I hope I'm not getting on your collective nerves by now. I am looking for info on Hawkeye power hammers or Any horizontal beam
hammers (bradley etc).
I would like to talk with owners as well as get pictures or printed material to help with a rebuild of a small #2 trip hammer. I would also be happy to forward everything I come up with to interested parties. Thanks sincerely for any help,

Paw-Paw, Thanks for the offer to help. I will have some pics out to you by sunday. TKS

peto -- pdehahn at - Friday, 04/06/01 01:54:19 GMT


No problem, will be looking for them.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Friday, 04/06/01 02:15:03 GMT

I have a Champion forge hand-cranked post drill ( in excelent shape ). I am trying to fiqure out how much its worth.. I may sell it and I don't want to give it away. Thanks / Steve

Steve Crabtree -- smithecrab at - Friday, 04/06/01 21:39:50 GMT

I have a Champion forge hand-cranked post drill ( in excelent shape ). I am trying to fiqure out how much its worth.. I may sell it and I don't want to give it away. Thanks / Steve

Steve Crabtree -- smithecrab at - Friday, 04/06/01 21:40:09 GMT

Steve, These are great tools but they typicaly sell for much less than they are really worth. The 1/2" spindle hole requires drills that are no longer made. This means that a user needs to make bushings for a set of bits OR fit the machine with a Jacobs chuck.

In 1975 I paid $25 for the drill I put on my portable forge (it had a broken column socket) and then put a $135 chuck and arbor on it. I had to machine down a #2MT arbor. 1/2" arbors are made but must be special ordered. I also replaced the thrust bearing. I think when I sold it with the trailer it had a used chuck. I've drilled thousands of holes with it from 3/16" up to 3/4".

I have a smaller one that I paid $45. It was complete except it needed a new thrust bearing too. The available replacements are thicker than the originals so I had to machine the thrust collars. On this one the column was very rusty and gouged up from over tightening the set screw. I replaced the column with a new longer piece of cold drawn steel and made a column support that looks sort of like a pillow block to support the longer column. I extended the column the 4" that the Jacobs chuck uses up.

Why all this work? Because, like I said, they are GREAT tools. The low speed drills steel better than any (woodworking) drill press as commonly sold by the place where "America shops". You can't burn up a drill bit with them. The low speed manual control is good for drilling weird things where applying unfeeling power will assuredly snap a new drill bit. AND. . . they don't NEED a motor. However, using a large drill bit will teach you what horse power REALLY is!

In recent years I've seen them selling for $75 to $150 US. I would buy one of these before I bought a "modern" drill press for the same money.

On the other hand, I've bought 4 big old 20-21" geared head drill presses for $100 to $325. These old flat belt cone pulley drive machines will out perform a new $4000 drill press. The two I purchased for $100 were in terrible shape and needed motors. One of the two higher priced machines was perfect, the other less so but came with a rack of drills up to 2-1/4" (57+mm). With a 1-1/2HP motor these machines will drill 1" holes all day long.

Value and price are often two different things.

Jock D. -- webmaster at - Saturday, 04/07/01 03:57:22 GMT

TESTING! I've been redesigning the V.Hammer-In. The NEW version really DOES refresh automaticaly on posting and the controls are better. It has the new drop down menu and a cookie system to remember your login and e-mail. Its based one the guru page but an even more improved version. Check it out at:

You may post to it but don't expect the posts to stay. It is being tested and the log is replaced often as changes are made. The new SUBJECT and URL fields do not yet work. As soon as the bugs are worked out (cookies only half work now) we will change to the new design.

Jock D. -- webmaster at - Saturday, 04/07/01 04:08:57 GMT

Steve, I agree with Jock, except around here they usually bring $35 to $125 . Do's it auto index,Is the shaft true and are the bearing good,also being already convertated to a Jacobs chuck is a price plus! good luck, hope this helps, when are you heading east again, I have 3 anvils,a 50 lb little giant with extr dies, 4 0r 5 post vices , a treadle hammer and other assorted stuff you really need in Illinoise. My wife is complaining about the yard onaments again and wants me to sale some stuff. See ya Mike

Stiffy -- mklbjean at - Saturday, 04/07/01 06:24:57 GMT

Jock, I really like the updates, but is there any chance we could get a spell checker installed also, my last post makes me look rather simple minded.

Stiffy -- mklbjean at - Saturday, 04/07/01 06:28:12 GMT

agree with former speaker!!

OErjan -- pokerbacken at - Saturday, 04/07/01 20:03:03 GMT

Spell check. . . THAT is the dominion of the Browser authors and the WC3 folks that define HTML. :(

I'll look to see but it would be HECK to load every time. . I'm looking at ways to link to client side files (on your PC). The problem is that IE does it with VisualBASIC and NS doesn't. . .

Jock D. -- webmaster at - Saturday, 04/07/01 21:01:40 GMT

just bought a little giant #25 that is off set. it needs a little work. Some one a while back told me there was someone in Neb who has parts.

doug -- uncledoug2000 - Sunday, 04/08/01 03:07:23 GMT


Sid Sudemier. I'll try to find the phone number for you.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Sunday, 04/08/01 03:26:31 GMT

LITTLE GIANT, 420 4th Corso, Nebraska City, NE 68410.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Sunday, 04/08/01 03:28:31 GMT

Does anyone have any photos of hand forged floor lamps?(I know that you do Paw Paw, whenever you find it-big grin)

Brian -- cornish at - Sunday, 04/08/01 21:16:08 GMT

Does anyone have any photos of hand forged floor lamps?(I know that you do Paw Paw, whenever you find it-big grin)

Brian -- cornish at - Sunday, 04/08/01 21:17:39 GMT

sorry for the double posting-computer brilliant I am not

Brian -- cornish at - Sunday, 04/08/01 21:18:47 GMT


I've looked every where I can think of and no luck.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Sunday, 04/08/01 22:41:05 GMT

Those are a couple of sites that sell lamps, good for ideas..

Steve C -- smithecrab at - Sunday, 04/08/01 23:49:44 GMT

sorry didn't mean to spell your name wrong :( brian..

Steve -- xxx - Sunday, 04/08/01 23:51:38 GMT

The Calif Blacksmith Assn is to have our spring conference in a couple of weeks, In Roseville.
The demonstrator list looks good. For more info CBA

pete f - Monday, 04/09/01 06:42:55 GMT

Alrighty, I can help to resolve a misaprehension made by many open eared lads or lasses in some cases, about "Super Swords"(Tum Tum TUMM)
These Swords that bend at Right angles and return without sign of being bent, and can chop through concrete......ARE REAL!! But its not quite so exciting as it seems, A friend of mine has a broadsword of such quality, it was purchased at a renaisance festival, made of a certain type of spring steel, the sword was put in a vise, then bent 90 and released(I wouldnt have been standing up to see this) The sword shows no sign of bend. my friend weighs some 350 pounds and like to demonstrate smaller bends, It is a full tang chinese broad sword(less broad than the ones im used to) and I myself have wielded the beast on several concrete blocks.

Now What they dont tell ya at the show is that there is no cutting edge to it,just something of a bevel, and it certainly cannot cut through steel, there is a dent in the face of it from where someone took it to a concrete block, once it cleared the block it went straight into the metal pipe behind it. no plumbing repair needed, as the pipe wasnt being employed.

Just thought that would be some useful info.

AdamSmith -- ColdForge1 at - Monday, 04/09/01 14:59:03 GMT

Super sword. . . A piece of untempered mild steel will do the same to a "concrete" block.

Concrete blocks, AKA "cinder blocks" AKA light weight blocks, AKA aero-crete blocks, are largely air and are made using waste materials (cinders) to make them light. They have the strength to do what they are designed to do but that is all. They have semi good compressive strength but little impact resistance.

Now, go chopping on solid high strength concrete and you will get an entirely different result.

Thanks for the info.

Jock D. -- guru at - Monday, 04/09/01 15:32:00 GMT

Blackrose Icon, Click for more info
100# Chambersburg and Shaper for sale!
By owner Click for more info.
webmaster at - Monday, 04/09/01 15:32:00 GMT
Hi Doug,
Sid Suedmeier's phone # is 402-873-6603. Don't know where you live, but Sid will be running a hands-on rebuild workshop in Carbondale, Colorado in June.

Julie -- forgingahead at - Tuesday, 04/10/01 18:46:10 GMT

Hi Doug,
Sid Suedmeier's phone # is 402-873-6603. Don't know where you live, but Sid will be running a hands-on rebuild workshop in Carbondale, Colorado in June.

Julie -- forgingahead at - Tuesday, 04/10/01 18:46:26 GMT

not much here for a while? wonder why?

OErjan -- pokerbacken at - Friday, 04/13/01 22:43:48 GMT

It gets that way from time to time. I've been pretty busy lately.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Saturday, 04/14/01 04:12:35 GMT

guess you qare right Pawpaw.

OE -- same - Saturday, 04/14/01 08:01:56 GMT

Pawpaw, I put a gavavized steel floor in my shop the other day to cover my wooden floor, on of the "local experts" told me that I would electrocute my self the first time I tried to stick weld on it. I wear heavy shoes and don't stand in water when I weld so I think i'll be ok, what do you think? "He has risen"! Have a safe and wonderfull Easter. Stiffy

Stiffy -- mklbjean at - Saturday, 04/14/01 17:30:21 GMT

Selling the contents of a blacksmith and machine shop located
in Jonesville< Michigan. 517-849-2739.

Chet Hastings -- www.ironwood at - Sunday, 04/15/01 00:52:30 GMT

ask the local expert how he thinks they manage to get all those steel bridges, skyscrapers, ships, etc. stuck together.

miles undercut -- longarc at - Sunday, 04/15/01 05:19:37 GMT

I think the Douglas Freund book " Pounding out the profits" has some pertinent stuff on horizontal helve hammers of different kinds...been long enough that I'm not sure about it.

Pete F - Sunday, 04/15/01 05:30:48 GMT


That's gonna be hard on the feet, I think, but I can't see any reason why it would cause you to get shock. I'd wear good shoes, preferably with rubber soles, just to protect me from dropped objects, but other than that I wouldn't worry about it.

Miles, your point is valid, but most of the tall buildings, and ships built, well into the 50's were actually rivetd together. Remember Rosie the Riveterr form WWII posters?

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Sunday, 04/15/01 15:25:16 GMT

I can't spell worth a flip of the bird this morning. Having a problem typing.

Miles, that should be riveted and riveter from WWII posters.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Sunday, 04/15/01 15:27:15 GMT

Only time I've been welder shocked was years ago on a dirt shop floor that was some damp, installing the electrode to the holder. The helper that holds the work sometimes has never been shocked in any of my experiences. The short circuit that takes place is , yes, dangerous. Others will have more info on this than me. Yes Paw PAw, I remember Rosie ( not related to Sweet Rosie O'Grady of course ! )

Ten Hammers -- lforge at - Sunday, 04/15/01 20:19:49 GMT

Ten, come to think about it, that's happened to me. Outside on a damp day, putting the rod in the holder. I don't have a stick welder any more, had a Lincoln 125 amp job, but traded it off for an engine rebuild. Never really learned to use it.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Sunday, 04/15/01 23:46:50 GMT

I do indeed recall Rosie. Knew her well. I grew up in the 30s and 40s in the shadow of Lorain and Bethlehem steel mills in Johnstown and Bethlehem, Pa. and Bethlehem's giant shipyard in Sparrows Point, Md. where my Dad worked as a marine engineer. But, you know, back before Rosie, they were building ships out of giant timbers, and houses and buildings and bridges, too, and afore that, out of animal skins. Point is, arc's been around since the latter half of the 19th Century, and around steel floors a helluva long time ahead of Rosie. I know that's shocking, but true. They were annealing armor plate on battle ships with arc by the early 1900s. In WWII they found arc eliminated a lotta weight and time over riveting-- and increased hull speed, too. I did say ask the local expert how he thinks they get--present tense-- that stuff made w/o arc. But past tense would check out, too.

miles undercut -- longarc at - Monday, 04/16/01 23:06:49 GMT


I really didn't mean to be arguing with you. And I hope you didn't think that I was. All of your statements above are correct. We just approached to question from slightly different perspectives.

BTW, my step dad's family hailed from Lancaster Co. I was raised part of the time in Highspire, next to Harrisburg. (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 00:03:50 GMT

no problem! vive la keystone state!

miles undercut -- longarc at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 00:34:05 GMT


I have to say vive la estats unis! (grin) Born in West (by God!) Virginia, raised there, and in Ohio (not a buckeye, either) and Pennsylvania, and Alaska, in addition to Japan, and Germany. Then "I" went into the Army. I've lived in 49 out of fifty states for at least three months. And have only missed two contintents, Australia, and Antartica. I still have hopes for Australia! (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 02:20:07 GMT


Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 02:22:24 GMT

you lucky dog, you! me, I've never been out of the country 'cept to texas. vive la serendipity!

miles undercut -- longarc at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 03:50:52 GMT


It's been fun, but there's a down side, too. I have very few roots. Most of my roots are people, not places.

Of course, my "senior class trip" was to southeast Asia. That was an education in itself.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 13:32:16 GMT

The good thing about travel is that you find out how good we have it here. Of course, that's an opinion, and opinions vary. Be a bit boring if they didn't. Grin.

Paw Paw, you *have* traveled a bit haven't you! People are better roots than places in my book anyway.

I've traveled a bunch for work. Not been to Africa or India or Australia. It sounds exciting and the first few trips in a new country are interesting. But being away from home and family is just not right in my book. Met many great people, some lazy slugs and some scary foreign government people. I am the only one of about 20 of my co-workers who travelled a bunch and is still married. The rest thought they found something better. Most regret it now. I found a different job in time. Just another perspective.

Welding shock. You'll only get the tickle if you are the easier path for the electrons. Welding voltage is low for a reason. I wouldn't worry about welding on a steel floor as long as you think about what you are doing and use a little common sense. Wear dry leather gloves when you put that stick in the holder and don't be holding onto that ground clamp at the same time. Grin.

Tony -- tca_b at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 14:22:37 GMT

Paw Paw; I was discussing with a bunch of smiths and we decided to pass the hat for you---we collected *exactly* enough $$ to get you a one way ticket to Antartica. We'll be happy to watch your smithing stuff to make sure no low down yellow bellied antique dealer gets their paws on it while you're gone---though it would help if you would just mark all the good stuff with a bit of "bright Blue" enamel paint...

Thomas (well there is coal and scrap iron down there...)

Thomas Powers -- thomas_powers at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 14:56:40 GMT

I won't say that America is the most wonderful country in the world.

I will say that it's way the he** ahead of which ever country is in second place! Democracy is actually a lousy form of government. A republican (type, not party) democracy is the most in-efficient form of government there is. It also happens to be the form of government that gives it's citizens the most freedom. I believe in individual freedom a LOT. That's why I've spent most of my life defending it. My opinion. (grin)

Tony, the only problem with having people as roots is that the roots keep dying off. And it hurts. We do share one thing. My wife and I have been married for 41 years. I only know one other VietVet who is still married to his first wife. In that respect, I'm a very lucky man.

Tom, But it's awfully hard to get the fire lit down there! (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 18:30:01 GMT

Not much blacksmithing on here lately, so I'll join the crowd. I tuned into metalworking newsgroup the other day and saw "Golden Age Posters". Well, at first blush, I thought they were selling *Rosie the Riveter" and "Uncle Sam Wants You". But they were just talking about guys like me, those over 50 years who post things. Duh! And I thought I was so hip.

And about travel. I said once to my friend, Cowboy Paul, "Why Paul, I've been more around the world than you've been around a peepot looking for its handle." And he sez, "Frank, I've seen more light houses than you have fence posts!" One-uped. No response. Shot out of the saddle. A Warm Duck's Nest to All, Frank Turley

Frank Turley -- nudahonga at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 20:06:07 GMT

pawpaw--check it out:

miles undercut -- longarc at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 20:07:50 GMT

Well, I looked at Miles's URL with Momma. She says I can go, but you have to send a round trip ticket, cause I can't go unless I come home. And I can't bring a Sheilah home with me either.

Also, she want's me to load the 12 gauge before I leave, so she can guard the shop. Something about the auction is gonna finance her trip around the world.

Warning, her hair was bright red, long before it turned grey! She means what she says, and *I'm* smart enough to not argue with her. She doesn't really need me to load the 12 ga. the 9mm IS loaded and she doesn't miss but about 1 out of a 100 rounds. She may ask "Which nut did you say you wanted to keep?"

Still want me to go? (grin)

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 22:18:25 GMT

Ya'll might want to take a look at STOUT postvise with a vise grip action built by Tony. Yeah I know its on the "other" page.
Jock he might be talked into a break down of the steps for the iForge, just a thought.

Mills -- mills_fam2 at - Tuesday, 04/17/01 22:55:34 GMT

Hello ----- anyone from Michigan on-line now?

Milt Gere -- miltgere at - Wednesday, 04/18/01 01:55:45 GMT

How can I be so smart but look so dumb, Lord protect us from Tax Time! I really don't mind contributing to the support of my country,I just hate how they complicate the process.

Mike jean -- mklbjean at - Wednesday, 04/18/01 03:13:58 GMT

Paw Paw, roots dying off, that's why you make new friends all the time I guess, huh? Can't stop it, gotta live with it. The bigger plan. I hope I can think that way when I have to walk in the shoes you've been in the last week.

The only "places" that I consider as roots are in a remote forest. Going there with the son this weekend. I spent a whole bunch of time and money personally building the kind of place I want. It's not done and never will be. I keep adding, grin. But it's still just a place. My wife and son were out of town this weekend and I had the whole place to myself and the 3 labs. I got a lot of work done, but I was reminded that it's just a place to be if there's no one to share it with.

On the other hand.... the work never talks back. Grin.

I agree 100% with your opinion of the government. It's very inefficient, but individual freedom IS paramount. Thanks for fighting for it!

My wife shoots a 9mm too. She's not as good a shot. But she did buy me a 454 Casull recently. Bless her soul! Now that's a firearm!

Mills, I had offered to send Jock the pics of the anvil and post vise for use here, before I posted them elsewhere.

Frank, don't ya hate it when someone else gives you a label? It's been said many times. You're only as old as you feel. And I don't mean physically feel. I've been achey in the morning since I was 16. And I'm still darn near as immature as I was when 16. RBGrin.

Tony -- tca_b at - Wednesday, 04/18/01 12:48:22 GMT


You knew what I was talking about. This is the second foster son in less than 16 months. I'm getting tired of it.

I guess most of my "Place" roots are on a hillside in Charleston, W.Va., a hillside outside of Pomeroy, OH, and a side street in Highspire, PA. The house in W.Va. is gone, and I'm not sure I could find the house in PA. Funny thing, the place in OH. is the oldest of the three, and is still there, still standing, and could actually be lived it. Been thinking about talking to the cousin that owns it now and seeing if he'd sell it. Was my Great Grand Parents home. Think they were the fourth or fifth generation to live in it.

Defending it was my honor. And most of the time, was a lot of fun.

Momma won't buy me a gun, but she never argues much if I say I'm going to buy a new one.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Wednesday, 04/18/01 13:15:24 GMT

Hi All,

Just thought I'd plug an event we're putting on at our 1870's blacksmith shop at the Amherst Historical Society, in Amherst Ohio, on May 19th. It's called a Blacksmith's Fair. It's based on a European event where all the town blacksmiths would gather once or twice a year at the town center & show off their skill & work. We're doing the same type of thing at the Great blacksmith's shop the AHS built for us almost two years ago. We're trying to get as many smiths to come & show off their skill & works & either set up their own demonstration forge or demonstrate in our building for an hour or so. This event is being well advertised in all the northern Ohio newspapers, the Ohio activity guide that the state puts out, all the local blacksmith clubs & on some local TV stations. We're hoping for a large public turn out & plan to make this an annual event.

If anyone is interested or would like more information, please let me know, either here or email me directly.

Thanks. Mike

Mike Roth -- mcroth at - Wednesday, 04/18/01 13:34:34 GMT

Frank the answer to that one is "I done been kicked out of more countries than you've been allowed in".

Smiths on a whole are nice folks. There was one at an "open air museum" in Germany who let me demo pattern welding (and get a hot iron fix in during a 3 month business trip) And the Zamorano family of Toledo was kind enough to let a wet behind the ears kid in their sword smithy and allow him to photograph the process.


Thomas Powers -- thomas_powers at - Wednesday, 04/18/01 15:53:46 GMT

One of my old "grad students", Rich from Illinois, returned home after finishing his iron bending studies Out West. He immediately went to visit his elderly blacksmith friend to tell him about his experience. With a twinkle in his eye, the old timer said, "So ya' learned it all in a few weeks, didja? Then you must know how to weld two pieces in the slack tub. Were you shown that?" Rich dug his big toe in the ground and replied, "Well, er, uh, no." After coning up his fire a little, the old timer said, "Well, I'm gonna' *show* ya'!And he did. What did he do?

I'll post the answer later on, just in case y'all haven't run across this lore before.

Frank Turley -- nudahonga at - Wednesday, 04/18/01 19:52:45 GMT

Now THIS I gotta see....(er, read?)

Chad -- NHBlacksmith at - Thursday, 04/19/01 01:25:05 GMT

is quenching oil the same as tempering oil.....

mordeith -- mordeith74 at - Thursday, 04/19/01 09:25:17 GMT

Frank: the master heated a ring to waaaay beyond burning stage picked it out of forge brought to slacktub and fidled with a second pair of tongs in the water "pinching the weld together" then took to anvil and gave a few WHACKS!! When cooling in slacktub it was accidentaly "dropped", master then proceeded to fish out a perfectly welded part.
Am I right Master?
If so grandfather did that to me when I was 11 or so :-) he had a great time watching me try... LOL!

OErjan -- you know it by now or? - Thursday, 04/19/01 19:29:55 GMT

That's the version I heard! And Mordeith: yes. It is.

Alan L -- longmire at - Friday, 04/20/01 00:56:41 GMT

Frank, are we talking about the water bucket forge? Electric current, etc? If not, I'm awaitin with open ears.....

Tony -- tca_b at - Friday, 04/20/01 02:51:45 GMT

OErjan - Hmmmm.... Let me guess. Since it was dropped while in the tub and *OUT OF SIGHT*, he had to fish around and find it again. So it couldn't be that there were *TWO* pieces in the tub, could it? One badly burned, the other nicely welded? Nah, he would never fool a little kid like that, not that nice grandpa! It had to be incredible skill!

Stormcrow -- Death to Nigerian Spammers!! - Friday, 04/20/01 04:01:20 GMT

Stormcrow: he has humor aswell (loves practical jokes). after a few missed tries he told me (like 15-20 or so) I still to this day suspect He actually told me as it started to be, eeeh, too much for him;-) with coal, steel prises and the pain from trying not to laugh... LOL.
it was a good lesson to me that everything is NOT what it seems...

OErjan -- pokerbacen at - Saturday, 04/21/01 08:15:11 GMT

Here's an interesting site with welding information.
Thanks to John Odom who posted it on keenjunk.

Jim Carothers -- colonel at - Saturday, 04/21/01 12:09:25 GMT

Question for anyone who knows hand crank blowers and parts - I was working at Rush Ranch (historic ranch w/ old blacksmith shop south of Fairfield, CA)at their open house today, and we broke a gear on our blower within 30 minutes of firing up. That one has no name on it that I can find. Then c-clamped a Buffalo on, and it broke 3 hours later. Forgot to write down model #. Anyone know sources for parts, especially gears? Thanks.

Rob -- hixholtz at - Sunday, 04/22/01 05:11:47 GMT

Members of the Saltfork Craftsmen ABA will have an open air smithy going on Saturday, April 28th, as part of the town of Marshall, OK Western Heritage Day. Marshall is SE of Enid, OK & very close to the intersection of State Highways 51 & 74. Come join us for a day of public smithing and fun. Set up time is around 9:00 AM; we should be wrapped up around 4:30 PM or so. Bring your portable equipment or just join us and use our tools. Tailgate stuff & forged items you'd like to sell are OK.
Jim Carothers
Perry, OK

Jim Carothers -- colonel at - Sunday, 04/22/01 13:25:55 GMT

FS: #2 hossfeld bender w/deluxe rotating and lockable [8 positions] pedestal base,std. acc's.,plus over $1,300.00 worth of hossfeld dies+ a few shopbuilt dies. Over $3,000.00 new asking $1,100.00 Can e-mail pic's and part #'s to interested parties.I' located in NE PA.

Ernie S. -- fjsheen163 at - Sunday, 04/22/01 18:02:04 GMT

FS: #2 hossfeld bender w/deluxe rotating and lockable [8 positions] pedestal base,std. acc's.,plus over $1,300.00 worth of hossfeld dies+ a few shopbuilt dies. Over $3,000.00 new asking $1,100.00 Can e-mail pic's and part #'s to interested parties.I' located in NE PA.

Ernie S. -- fjsheen163 at - Sunday, 04/22/01 18:03:19 GMT

FS: #2 hossfeld bender w/deluxe rotating and lockable [8 positions] pedestal base,std. acc's.,plus over $1,300.00 worth of hossfeld dies+ a few shopbuilt dies. Over $3,000.00 new asking $1,100.00 Can e-mail pic's and part #'s to interested parties.I' located in NE PA.

Ernie S. -- fjsheen163 at - Sunday, 04/22/01 18:04:05 GMT

Welding two pieces in the slack tub. The ol' boy took a piece of 1" square stock a little longer than the depth of the water, heated one end to a sparking heat, and put it in the tub with the scintillating end upwards. He then proceeded to touch the end of a baling wire to it. Voila!

Frank Turley -- nudahonga at - Tuesday, 04/24/01 05:15:19 GMT


That's MEAN! I'm going to remember that one.

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Tuesday, 04/24/01 18:57:55 GMT

Cookie test

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Wednesday, 04/25/01 18:15:07 GMT

ups a new blacksmith chat anybody there

Heiner -- heiner at - Wednesday, 04/25/01 21:13:39 GMT

I was just looking back in the guru archives and found to my dismay that I missed an excellent sequence of postings in early february about blacksmithing theory, ethics, and philosophy. I would just like to put my two cents in on the subject.

Im only sixteen but I have about 8 years of actual experience in metalwork, I first got that feeling when I cold forged a little sword for an action figure that came with a bent plastic one. I only flattened the nail but it looked really neat. These days I spend all of my freetime working with, learning about, or shopping for metal. I often find myself putting a finish on a small piece(which never ever even resembles a weapon) during study hall if I'm ontop of my schoolwork.

Its what I dedicate myself to and Its what I know I could live happily doing.

My tools now are two stationary sanders, a pedestal grinder, buffing/sanding/etc motor, air compressor, pneumatic die grinder, table saw, scroll saw, huge drill press, numerous drills and dremmels, a section of railroad, a 100# cast iron doorstop, A couple of mapp gas torches, and many other small tools. Dont think im rich, I only bought about 10% of the tools I have, the rest were accumulated by my father's side of the family which has a rich heritage of metalwork. I realize that I am fortunate to have the tools, and to have a workshop in my basement, but for about 4 years I was'nt aloud to use the most essential tools. I sat in my room amongst a sea of scraps and rods and corners of different metals trying to make a metal mosaic( I think I was 9 back then). when I was twelve I was making bi-weekly trips to hardware stores for wire to make chainmail which sold very well at school.(I was ripped off bigtime though). around age 13 I fell into confusion, I was doing really well with my chains and chainmail but in my mind I wanted desperately to cut and carve stone, that year I must have brought more than 3,000 pounds of stone in and out of the house, and now all I have to show for it is a handful of basic and abstract shapes with odd facets(not to mention a huge box O' rocks that eats up space). around age 14 my father unleashed the beast by giving me access to his workshop. I worked like a youth posessed, made one mind blowing copper sculpture, and started in with some sheet aluminum. from age 15 to 16(now) Ive turned to ferrous metals as well as the exotic.

I cant fathom how high the number is: of times I sat on the floor in my room or shop with a sort of creative panic(terrible predicament) where I knew I had to create but somehow knew I couldnt, I would just pound on something or bend something for hours looking for pictures, begginings, or at least a pattern, and seldom have I found anything. When I create, usually, I come right home from school and(workload pending) head straight downstairs(sometimes I still have my backpack on) and the first thing that catches my eye becomes my concentration for the next 6 hours, and for that evening I rip through more problems and difficulties than I can in any other aspect of my life. It hits suddenly, sometimes it yields satisfaction, sometimes it throws rocket fuel on my creative frenzy. And the one thing I always do that I dont understand, is talking to myself, if im in the shop im probably mid conversation with the problem solving region of my mind.

I like spending my time alone, It lets me think. Improvisation and intuition have brought me through the hardest times. Ive been through alot and I always find solice in the smithing.

I lean towards the traditional methods of smithing(at least with forming) because I feel I can keep my work personal. This goes deep, I like to think that my finished pieces are infused with my DNA. On the sword page I liked reading about the kris because it's such a romantic(like the period, not the books) idea to imbue your creation with powers or enchantments. But then I look and realize that short of a touchmark, its all science, in 100 years I might as well have never made it. But still, my art is special to me because it's of my design, and cooperates with my will.

As far as attitudes go, I dont think anyone is humble enough to be a good craftsman if he doesnt have the respect to be polite. Elders especially, if you can look the master in the face without him seing a good pupil, then what the heck chance do you have of being taught?(unless its in the public school system)

All in all, like so many things, blacksmithing can be approached best with an open mind, honest spirit, willing intellect, and ready hand.

forgive me if this post seems like drivle. I just felt I should give my say.

thank you

AdamSmith -- ColdForge1 at - Wednesday, 04/25/01 22:40:06 GMT

Adam: I wish I had realized all that when I was that age (I'm 31). I must confess I had my doubts when you first started posting here, but no more. You get it. Carry on as you started, and you'll go a long way.

Alan L -- longmire at - Thursday, 04/26/01 00:55:07 GMT


Saturday the 14th of this month, I gave the euology for a friend of mine that had passed away. One of the things I mentioned about Robin was his burning desire to learn. He wanted to learn about the military. You have the same type of desire to learn about blacksmithing.

That's really ALL you need. Everything else you can acquire or learn.
But the desire has to come from inside yourself.

I'm glad you've got it! Nourish it! Feed it! You'll do well at whatever you decide to tackle!

Paw Paw Wilson -- pawpaw at - Thursday, 04/26/01 01:27:42 GMT

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