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February 2008 Archive

WHY THREE FORUMS? Well, this is YOUR blacksmithing forum to use for whatever you wish within the rules stated above. It is different than the Slack-Tub Pub because the messages are permanently posted and archived.
This page is NOT a chat - it is a "message board"

Our chat, the (Slack-Tub Pub), is immediate but the record of it is temporary. DO NOT post permanent messages there. We refresh the "log" every 24 hours now and your message will be lost.

The Guru's Den is where I and several others try to answer ALL your blacksmithing and metalworking questions to us.

Please note that this forum uses an e-mail encryption system that prevents spam harvesters from collecting your e-mail address.

J. Dempsey  <webmaster> Rev. 7/98, 3/99, 5/2k, 6/2k, Friday, 04/06/01 16:43:25 GMT

Web Site Owners - Spam Warning:
If you get a email from someone asking to advertise on your site or "be partners" DO NOT respond to it. It is just fishing for an e-mail address to SPAM you with.

I have recently been getting these requests by the dozens and all the reply addresses are different and do not match but the mail is the same. In this case the return did not match the send OR the name in the body of the mail. Many of these are attempts to get past contact forms that do not list addresses.

Legitimate mail will point you back to THEIR site or product to see what you may be advertising.

- guru - Friday, 02/01/08 07:49:38 EST

Flypress P4 for sale: P4 Flypress from Kayne&Son, purchased 2004, located just north of Columbus OH. $600 to pickup, or plus shipping.
Details and photos
Mike - Friday, 02/01/08 10:58:29 EST

Flypress P$ for sale: Link correction, apologies
Corrected link for details and photos
Mike - Friday, 02/01/08 10:59:35 EST

Sahinler dies: Geoff- while I have no idea who, if anyone, in Australia could help you, Brian Russell sells Sahinlers here in the USA, and stocks dies for them.
You can find him online at
The Sahinler is made in Turkey, and you probably could deal directly with them as well-

However, it would seem that whoever is selling the machines in Australia would also have dies.
- Ries - Friday, 02/01/08 16:18:37 EST

Sahinler dies: :
Note that BigBLU is tooling up to make their line of dies available for other hammers including Sahinler.
- guru - Sunday, 02/03/08 10:17:47 EST

Power Hammer for Sale: 50 lb Moloch Hammer
Hammer is equipped with a 1 hp single phase motor. Hammer is in good working order, though it could be tuned up and improved by the addition of a brake. Located in Beloit, Wis. Total weight of hammer is about 1650#. It can easily be moved on a small trailer or in the back of a full size pickup truck. Pickup is highly preferred. I should be able to arrange loading.
Phone: 608-856-0217
Patrick Nowak - Monday, 02/04/08 09:16:00 EST

But Patrick I gave up a perfectly good *free* dinner at Quad-State one year to go with you and look that hammer over before you bought it!

I knew that working at Scott Forge; (their motto: "1' diameter round stock *is* the small stuff") would push you toward the big boys. Sigh.

Say hi to Melody and the kids for me!

Thomas P - Monday, 02/04/08 17:58:54 EST

Patrick, can you describe a Molock? like a LG?
ptree - Monday, 02/04/08 19:24:39 EST

Jeff- A Moloch is very similar to a Little Giant (it's almost identical to a Murray), but there are a couple of differences. Instead of split bearings with babbit, this hammer has bronze bearings pressed into housings. Also, each linkage arm has the ability for tension adjustment, whereas on a Little Giant there is only one tension adjustment. The guides on the hammer are on the sides of the ram, which I think is similar to some of the newer LG designs. This hammer was orignally set up to run from a line shaft. The clutch arrangement is situated between the two bearings as opposed to on the back end of the shaft, which is th arrangement found on hammers of later vintage.

Thomas- you will be pleased to know that I am not
- Patrick Nowak - Tuesday, 02/05/08 09:35:45 EST

And the Moloch was designed by the Maier Bros who also designed and built the LG. So it is VERY similar.
- guru - Tuesday, 02/05/08 10:44:10 EST

New Forge Construction: Oakley Forge (II)

I'm about to nail the lap-jointed 4" X 6" sills to the foundation pilings for the 12' X 24' forge building. Getting things squared-up is a little bit of a challenge, but I have it so that the diagonal measurements, from corner to corner, are within two inches of each other. Before I spike things down, is this "close enough for government work" given the dimensions of the building, or should I seek a closer tolerance?

Once the sills are down, I've got enough lumber to stud-up one end and half-way down the side (figuring that a corner would be self supporting with a couple of diagonals for reinforcement. I am somewhat eager to show some progress, both for my own morale and to show the new owner of the "New Barns" and stripping shed (where he's letting me stay until I finish the new location and move) that I am actually going to get out of there sometime this spring or early summer.

Downright springlike on the banks of the lower Potomac.

Latest NPS Project
Bruce Blackistone (Atli) - Tuesday, 02/05/08 22:46:32 EST

Bruce, I've built two similar structures here in the foothills of the Sangre de Cristo Mountains north of Santa Fe, post and beam, one with footings connecting the posts and then stud walls with plywood sheathing, corrugated tin exterior, one still open. Within two inches of square in that span sounds like precision to me. This is a shop, not a harpsichord. The two main things to strive for, in my experience, are 1) a level floor, whether dirt or brick or preferably a slab and 2) tight fit all around to keep the mousies out. That latter may be impossible. It is here. If you are putting wood down close to the ground, see if your local garden shop has any pre-ban creosote back in the storeroom.
Miles Undercut - Tuesday, 02/05/08 23:04:40 EST

Bruce: If I was building a house, I'd want the diagonals to be within 1/8", but for a shop I suppose 2" is adequately close. As long as you're not going to try to put a plywood sheathed roof on it, that is. If you're planning to sheath the roof, then you want the bottom plates really square so the top plates will be, too. Otherwise, you'll drive yourself nuts trying to get sheathing to fit the roof. If your floor is square, everything else follows pretty well, but if it isn't, you have to fudge things somewhere else along the way.

One way to make squaring up the sills a bit easier is to set up one corner so that your diagonal measurement is 26'10" which should give you a 90 degree corner with 12' and 24' walls. I usually nail a few sticks together to make a diagonal brace to hold that measurement while I kick everything else into place and nail it down.
vicopper - Tuesday, 02/05/08 23:31:24 EST

I was working with a carpenter in about 1953 on some row houses, and would say, "Lou, that door frame is not plumb!" or, "Lou, that lintel is not level!" "Miles," Lou said finally, "you'll never see that from Putty Hill." Putty Hill was wayyyyyy over on the other side of Balmer from where we were. That's been my mantra ever since. Vicopper's right about getting the walls right so the plywood will work out-- but if the walls are off a bit you can always jiggle the rafters, so they are square with the ridge, don't forget. I won't tell if you don't.
Miles Undercut - Wednesday, 02/06/08 00:23:07 EST

Squareness in Buildings: When I built my shop at the Old Mill the foundations were square to 1/16" and level to 1/8". But when we set the trusses from back to front each one pushed the framing in a bit until the front of the building was 2" narrower than the back.

This caused a few trimmed pieces of sheet rock on the ceiling but that was a minor problem. The worst part is that the when the corrugated steel roofing reached the edge it had to be cut at a taper which was VERY obvious on from the ground since the cut was next to the lines in the steel. IF I had realized this was going to happen I would have shimmed the edge trim on the roof. However, this part of the framing was over 30 feet from the ground and while I DID the work I do not like high places. . . Hanging over the edge nailing those edge pieces on was probably the scariest part of the whole job.

As a craftsman of many things my suggestion is to keep everything as straight and square as possible making corrections as you go. It is always easier to measure and fit to straight and square than to whopper-jawed. However, tolerances are also a function of how straight your materials are and techniques used. On the other hand, I'd bet a lot of hand hewn log structures were square to within at least 1/2" when built. I know our old mill was even though there is not two pieces of lumber in the whole building that are the same dimensions.

Doing it right is easiest.
- guru - Wednesday, 02/06/08 12:18:49 EST

I have built many pole barns and lean too additions. I would always try for as square as I could make it. usually within 1/2" on a 24' by 48' Make the metal roof much better looking and easy to apply. Poles are bent ETC. I have winched and used tractors to draw them into line and they usually stay once finished.
But my addage is "its a barn!" or "Its a SHOP"
ptree - Wednesday, 02/06/08 19:53:24 EST

Squareness: Just thought I'd quote a reply from one of the folks on the Camp Fenby list

"8-0 No square corners! Old Scratch luks in Square corners. The question is: are you off square enough? ;-)"

I think Master Thomas alluded to this in a previous post on New Mexico. :-D

I certainly appreciate the help and suggestions.

Fighting off my daughter's and Wif's cold on the banks of the Potomac. Bleh! I may have to ake the early bus to Grey Havens.

Go viking!
Bruce Blackistone (Atli) - Thursday, 02/07/08 12:13:14 EST

Atli, sounds like he must be kin to the folks who built my house in 1926 and added to it in 1959. There's not a square, level, or plumb surface at any point in the house, unless you count the tangent of the high spot in the hallway floor.
Alan-L - Friday, 02/08/08 10:53:42 EST

Out here in the land of home puddled adobe building old homes are almost Lovecraftian in their outre non-euclidian construction with doors and windows often very out of plumb.

OTOH you can always take a mining pick and recarve the openings...

Thomas P - Friday, 02/08/08 13:55:11 EST

Cymbal Hammer: I need cymbal making hammers , Where can I find them from ?
- Mustafa Umut Sarac - Friday, 02/08/08 16:44:02 EST

Cymbal Hammer (ie percussion instrument)- you cant buy them, Ive done a little development work, and had a few chats with one of Brazils largest manufactures of cymbals - we never finalised anything but I understand the design parameters pretty well. You should be able to make a deep throat machine using off the shelf pneumatic components.

You know the process of making the product so its pretty easy to design the hammer around the process!
- John N - Saturday, 02/09/08 10:24:44 EST

Vises For Sale: Hey Folks! Drinking, gambling, philandering, oh no......I can't get rid of those vices, but I have about 30 very nice blacksmith leg vises for sale. All have nice jaws with great screw and boxes. They range from 5 1/2"- 3 1/2" wide jaws. Some are heavy and some are light. The brands are are Indian Chief, O'Leary, Iron City, Peter Wright,etc. They range in price from $100-$200. You can call me at (928) 442-3290 or email at . I also have a rare 150lb. Arm & Hammer farrier's anvil for sale. Happy Hammering!
Barry Denton - Saturday, 02/09/08 11:44:59 EST

Cymbal Hammer:
Those for hand hammering are similar to a Cutlers or Japanese smith's hammer with all the mass in front of the hammer. The face uses a slight crown and well radiused corners like a good forging hammer. Look up "Japanese blacksmith (or bladesmith) hammers".

Yes. . . I've noticed that the hammer pattern on the famous Turkish made cymbals was too regular for hand work and that a machine and fixture was used. The fixture for holding the cymbal is similar to old disk plow sharpening fixtures except its position is controlled by hand so that one or more passes can be made at radi determined by the operator. That is about the total of what I know about it.
- guru - Saturday, 02/09/08 18:06:55 EST

Square vs. Free form:
On the squareness issue the thing to remember is how your materials are provided. Sheets of plywood, sheet rock, tin and other materials come cut quite square. On a square frame these materials are often applied with ZERO cutting. Any commercial doors or windows will be square and fit square framing and straight lines MUCH better. Even strip siding fits better if the lines or surfaces are straight and flat.

Mud for adobe, and hay bales for that methode are often not very square or slump easily under load. They are also much more appropriate to organic shapes and much like caves or tunnels are stronger with smooth curved arches, round windows and such. But fitting normal square components into those holes is labor intensive.

A friend of ours recently finished a timber frame Tudor style home with all the plasterwork fitted between the framing. He said there was more labor filling those not so square, or parallel spaces than the whole rest of the job. . .

BARRY! Where are those vices located?
- guru - Saturday, 02/09/08 18:26:38 EST

Barry & vises: Barry Denton is in Skull Valley, Arizona.
Frank Turley - Saturday, 02/09/08 20:01:33 EST

Cymbal hammers, The cymbals are still 'handmade' even with a power hammer - the hammer was to be a single strike unit (think KA75), with sensative blow control so the skill of tuning the cymbal is still 100% with the craftsman, just easier on the arm.

My initial suggestion of a CECO panel drop stamp with dedicated tooling was frowned upon !, apparently this level of continuty in the product is not desirable.
- John N - Saturday, 02/09/08 21:08:01 EST

Square & true buildings: My Dad was a professional custom home carpenter from '46 untill the day before He died in '04 and was the senior lead man for decades. He was a firm believer in keeping things square & plumb. When You built a building with Him everything just fell into place [not all that was due to its being square & plumb, He just plain had it together]. In contrast another builder in our area came up with a pannel construction method, and had His rather inexperienced nephews build the foundation, and they built it out of square. This caused problems in every stage of construction along the way, everything became a PITA on this prebuilt pannel home that should have gone together without a hitch.
- Dave Boyer - Sunday, 02/10/08 00:07:01 EST

Squareness: Depending on how you build laying out the foundation to square is very easy using the Pythagorean Therom OR even trial and error. Any square or rectangle has the same diagonal measurements. Calculation is easier than trial and error but both work. If you are laying out the foundation with string and double ground stakes at the corners it is easy to be within the smallest reasonable measurement you can read on a tape over a building distance (+/- 1/32 or 1 mm). Level is actually more difficult. Either a transit or water level is needed.

Building to that layout is easier said than done depending on the method. However, if you are pouring a slab or block foundation to build on this gives you a great reference for the rest of the construction.
- guru - Sunday, 02/10/08 10:08:09 EST

50 lb Moloch: The Molooh posted for sale last week has been sold.

- Patrick - Monday, 02/11/08 11:10:36 EST

Pythagorus musta had a lot of time on his hands. However: .0069444 is what I get dividing 2 inches by 288, the skew of the building's footprint across the length of the building. the amount of the error. That's good enough for a shop to me. You'll never see it. If you do, why, my goodness, have the common decency to pretend you don't! You know what Hippocrates said: Ars longa, vita brevis. Get 'er done! Onward!
Miles Undercut - Monday, 02/11/08 12:08:45 EST

Wally Yater Swage Blocks and Cone Mandrel for Sale: I have a mint, unused, signed, matched set of original Wallace Yater swage blocks (2 block set), weighing approx. 200 lbs. each, AND a mint, unused, signed Wallace Yater cone mandrel approx. 49" high and weighing approx. 275~300 lbs., FOR SALE. I purchased all three pieces from Wally at his Boonesboro, MD, home in 1986 and they have been in storage ever since. I can email you photos. Swage block set is $1500 plus freight or U Pick Up. Cone mandrel is $600 plus freight or U Pick Up. All three pieces for $2000. Located in Joseph, Oregon.
I know Frank Turley is out there -- Hey Frank! Tim (Max)Vollmer, Penland, NC, summer 1983.
Max V - Monday, 02/11/08 18:17:17 EST

Max: Maybe it was 1981. Sounds like a good deal for a Wally Yater fan.
- Frank Turley - Monday, 02/11/08 20:16:24 EST

I'm on the Colbert Report Tonight:
Comedy Central; Monday, February 11, 2008, 11:30 EST, repeats tomorrow

One of our Captains, Ceecy Nucker, was in from North Dakota visiting her mother, and they decided to see the portrait of Steven Colbert (temporarily) displayed at the National Portrait Gallery and “prominently” displayed in the alcove between the men’s and women’s rooms. Since I’m one of the “designated guys who work downtown and know where to eat and where the museums are” I met them in Chinatown and then we stopped by the gallery in time to catch a camera crew interviewing various patrons. Ceecy and Connie do most of the talking; I’m just background for the most part.

Sort of fun, assuming I don’t make a fool of myself. In these snap interviews, what you want to say, what you think you said, and what actually shows up on the camera can be highly variable. Anyway, another 10 second clip of my purported 15 minutes of fame.

I hope y’all enjoy it. I’m the tall skinny bureaucrat with the two women. :)

Recovering from the flu on the banks of the lower Potomac.
Bruce Blackistone (Atli) - Monday, 02/11/08 21:49:44 EST

There is a leg vise with tenon mount bracket on ebay. The buy it now is $110. pick-up only. I would be interested if it were closer.
- Jason Mecum - Wednesday, 02/13/08 20:06:27 EST

Tenon mount vise: Jason, If you're near New Mexico, I'll sell you one.
Frank Turley - Thursday, 02/14/08 01:29:05 EST

Max: Hi Max - I used to have a summer home in Joseph. Last house on Main - right side - just before the Krieger property. Do you know Glen Franz or Bob Jackson. There were out next door and across the street neighbors.
dief - Thursday, 02/14/08 02:37:14 EST

Bruces' 10 sec of fame: Here is the link to the colbert report Bruce can be seen about 5/8 of the way through. The timer on the video is countdown so if you scroll through it will be at about 2 min remaining.

If that link doesn't work and you just goota hobnob with the muckety mucks :) search national portrait gallery on comedy central colbert report.
- Mills - Thursday, 02/14/08 10:02:59 EST

Sorry : I see that on my computer at least that post broadend the width of the page. I'm running 10.4.11 on a mac with firefox if that helps Jock.
- Mills - Thursday, 02/14/08 10:05:11 EST

Tenon vise: Thanks for the offer Frank. I was assuming tenon mount vises are a rare find. I saw this one for sale and thought someone may be interested. The price may not be as good as I assumed.
Jason Mecum - Thursday, 02/14/08 10:35:44 EST

Long URL:
On this page you can post the URL and give it a different link name that does not need to be so long. . . So I fixed it.

Hmmmmmm. . . link works couldn't find Bruce. . .
- guru - Thursday, 02/14/08 12:20:06 EST

Bruces' 10 sec of fame II: I tried to access several methods of linking to that and I could not get straight to it. The best that I can see is to go to the home page search "national portrait gallery" on comedy central colbert report. That takes you to a links page where the second link is the we want and all the others reference a fox in london.
- Mills - Thursday, 02/14/08 18:07:56 EST

Oh Fame; thou fleeting bauble!: (My favorite quote, and purported last words, from Captain Hook.)

Just like the newspapers of old, we are now even more efficient at wrapping electronic fish, sometimes within a matter of seconds. On the other claw, if you do something sufficiently foolish, and it gets put up on "YooToob," you'll get to regret it forever!

My thanks to everyone for their guidance on squaring the new forge building. I may be well enough this weekend to put the suggestions into action and start studding-up.
One of todays projects: Harry S. Truman NHS
Bruce Blackistone (Atli) - Friday, 02/15/08 10:07:44 EST

I saw Atli: Right there on national television, by golly! Twice, in fact. I watched it that night and then again a day or so later my wife was watching and I happened to walk by just at the clip at the Nat'l Gallery was running.

Can I have your autograph, Cap'n Atli, Sir?
vicopper - Saturday, 02/16/08 22:36:31 EST

Frank Turley: was last seen lookin' out at me from page 68 of my February copy of NEW MEXICO MAGAZINE. You're looking good, Frank, for a man who's 6 years older than me. I'll be in NM from April 17 thru 21. Looking forward to seeing you.
3dogs - Tuesday, 02/19/08 04:20:39 EST

3dogs: I'm doing OK except for a little bit of Dunlap's disease, where your belly done laps over your belt buckle. A friend advised me not to let it become Furniture disease, where your chest falls into your drawers. He further stated that the worst form was Pirates' disease. Sunken chest.
Frank Turley - Tuesday, 02/19/08 11:44:04 EST

3dogs-- y'all come see us naow, yew hear, hon? As we useta say (and they still do) back in Bawlmer, Merlin.
- Miles Undercut - Wednesday, 02/20/08 01:31:07 EST

Hmm, I think I may've been out West too long. That attempt to capture the poetry of the Old Line State accent doesn't look quite right for Bawlmer. It has, after all, been 53 years! Oughta be instead: "Youse come see us, hon! Hear?" Whatever, you get the idea, Paul.
Miles Undercut - Wednesday, 02/20/08 21:46:00 EST

I blamed it on all the oysters and crabs; can't expect a feller to talk right after a diet of them things---have you ever heard a cajun raised on mudbugs?

Thomas raised on blackeyed peas and cornbread like the good Lord intended!
Thomas P - Thursday, 02/21/08 13:38:04 EST

Dayyum, chile is marvelous, but I do miss soft crabs! Oyster fritters! Gumbo!
Miles Undercut - Thursday, 02/21/08 19:09:04 EST

Miles, its Burgoo from W. Kentucky that floats my boat. That and any barbque from the Moonlight Barbque Grill in Owensboro KY.
ptree - Thursday, 02/21/08 19:28:19 EST

Now BBQ isn't a food; it'a a *religion*!

Only place I recognized in McLean VA when I visited in about 1998 after having left in 1968 was "3 Little Pigs BBQ" Same location, same menu. Not my favorite style of BBQ; but I do admire their sticking to their roots and not too bad as a "wet" BBQ!

Thomas P - Thursday, 02/21/08 20:08:16 EST

Teaching in Deer Isle, Maine: We used to to to the beach one time during a teaching session at Haystack, and have lobster, long necked clams, and mussels fixed over the campfire. One of the locals, Bonnie by name, would not go near the mussels. I asked him why, and he said, "I can't stand the hairy little things."

Frank Turley - Thursday, 02/21/08 20:50:15 EST

Bonnie Billings: is definitely a character, from all accounts. I'm not at all surprised he has an opinion about mussels, and I confess I share his opinion of them. I don't think much of clams, oysters, cockels, conch or other sea-run escargot, either. I'll stick with the black-eyed peas and cornbread, thank you. Toss in a couple of pork chops and I'm in heaven.
vicopper - Thursday, 02/21/08 22:32:35 EST

Bonnie Billings: is definitely a character, from all accounts. I'm not at all surprised he has an opinion about mussels, and I confess I share his opinion of them. I don't think much of clams, oysters, cockels, conch or other sea-run escargot, either. I'll stick with the black-eyed peas and cornbread, thank you. Toss in a couple of pork chops and I'm in heaven.
vicopper - Thursday, 02/21/08 22:32:35 EST

Just once: I swear, I only hit that button one time, honest!
vicopper - Thursday, 02/21/08 22:33:11 EST

Conch: I only know of 5 ways to prepare conch and have it be good, it isn't like shrimp & Forest Gump's army buddy.
- Dave Boyer - Friday, 02/22/08 00:24:37 EST

Well, look, there is scrapple, which us Pennsylvanians think is yummy, and blood pudding, which us Irish savour, and.... I mean, non re gustibus disputandum or something like that, as the Romans are said to have said. We have BBQ out here, too, I've tried it in Albuquerque, and in Cheyenne, and it's fabulous.
Miles Undercut - Friday, 02/22/08 00:53:36 EST

Miles: Did you compare the Western BBQ to the BBQ in Bawlmer?
Frank Turley - Friday, 02/22/08 10:36:36 EST

Frank-- Nope, alas, I have not. Maybe we should set up the Anvilfire National BBQ Tour. New Yorker writer Calvin Trillin thinks it's best in Kansas City, as I recall. We could field test eval, even have a bus, like the candidates. Hell's bells, if those codgers over at Forgemagic can have a colonoscoparama, as some there have proposed, we can do something with a bit more flair!!
- Miles Undercut - Friday, 02/22/08 11:35:27 EST

State Line BBQ near El Paso would be a good starting place and then Crazy Horse near Tahlequah OK; used to be a nice hole in the wall place in OKC but I think me and my friends ate him out of business...

Thomas P - Friday, 02/22/08 12:04:24 EST

Try the original location of Corky's in Memphis. It will spoil you for any other BBQ.
- Brian C. - Friday, 02/22/08 19:29:22 EST

Moonlight Barbque grill in Owensboro KY. The home of western Ky style sauced 'que. Best barbqued mutton period. Next to the airport, and looks tiny from the front. Seats about 1400 I think.
ptree - Saturday, 02/23/08 09:45:16 EST

Union Benefits: Anybody need benefits? How about medical insurance?
Check out the JHu's website Blacksmiths are welcome as well as horseshoers and many other trades. Hopefully some of you will consider joining
- hammerman947 - Saturday, 02/23/08 15:07:41 EST

Vise Location: Howdy! Those vises I was telling you about last week are at my ranch in Skull Valley,AZ which is 12 miles SW of Prescott,AZ.
- Barry Denton - Saturday, 02/23/08 18:24:17 EST

Progress on Oakley Forge: I actually got the end (west) wall and part of the long south wall studded-up this weekend! Who knows, I may have this puppy put together for Camp Fenby in June!

(Of course, nothing quite fits and "vertical" beams somehow don't quite align with the wall plate, but I'll pull things into alignment one way or another.
Bruce Blackistone (Atli) - Sunday, 02/24/08 20:47:26 EST

Bruce, I pulled some things into place with a cheap come-a-long. . . But you have to remember that tension will be there for YEARS, maybe forever. You would think these things would relax but they do not.
- guru - Monday, 02/25/08 10:51:33 EST

Had a student over yesterday; so I worked hard to finish up my projects to clear the forge for his---he got here and I asked him what he wanted to work on and he said "I was just going to watch you today..." He made a rasptle snake and he liked it!

He wants to make a sword, sigh, he's at the stage that he would have trouble making a knife on his own.

I was hammering out some spits for a medieval spit holder---putting bevels on them to make it wider so the meat doesn't refuae to turn as required. Good practice for blademaking as I had nearly 6" of double beveled stock done---lets you see how well you forge the center line in.

Thomas P - Monday, 02/25/08 12:30:30 EST

That should be 6 *feet* and they sure look like rapiers ready for the file/grindstone.

Thomas PTP
Thomas P - Monday, 02/25/08 18:05:51 EST

ThomasP, you did have me wondering what you were going to put on that 6" spit. Knowing of your AK background I was thinking chipmonk maybe. A roadkill armadillo would be too big:)
ptree - Monday, 02/25/08 19:26:37 EST

I haven't seen many 'dillos out this way; much more common in AR along with possums. In OH coons were a big part of the roadkill burden. Out here rabbits, Cottontail and Jack are the main roadkill; probably followed by snakes (rattle, king, etc).

Prarie dog would fit on my 3' spits quite well though and perhaps give you a nice case of the black death for bragging rights to boot!

Thomas P - Tuesday, 02/26/08 13:13:02 EST

Thomasp's road kill grill: I did not know the range of the great armored possum to the west. At Camp Shelby MS, when I was there in the ARMY Guard in the late 70's they called the arkansas possums on the half shell when we hit them with the duece and a halfs.
They had the irriating habit of jumping when scared and they would get stuck in the brush guard on the duece and halfs. Jeeps however usually were DOA as the 'dillos went into the raditor.
The tanker units all tried to catch a baby dillo for a mascot. The ARMY frowned on that as they were carring some wierd diesese.
Prarie dog on a spit, tastes like chicken with a side of bubonic
ptree - Wednesday, 02/27/08 19:12:13 EST

Armadillos can carry hansen's disease AKA Leprosy; but it's not very contagious unlike bubonic.

Thomas P - Wednesday, 02/27/08 19:56:17 EST

Forging Titanium: Are there any health issues concerning forging Titanium. After that, what advice do ya'll have for forging the stuff. I have a Phoenix 150 power hammer to help.
- FIREBUG - Wednesday, 02/27/08 20:08:25 EST

Ti: Pure titanium forges like butter. I've never tried any alloyed stuff, so I can't comment on that.
vicopper - Wednesday, 02/27/08 23:08:03 EST

Rob Gunter told me that some alloys can cause "flu like symptoms".

I have only forge the cp grades 1 & 2 as I use steel for blades and the alloys don't buy me anything when used ornamentally. (save for my hand forged Ti eating knife I did for my blacksmithing eating set: Ti knife, stainless fork and wrought iron spoon. I also have Ti fork & spoon---dishwasher safe!)

I have forged a Ti set of tongs for use with my gasser and hope to forge a Ti hammer this spring---just to be obnoxious and use up some large Ti stock I was given.

Thomas P - Thursday, 02/28/08 13:32:25 EST

Titanium: The Titanium that I have is a bearing race. About 3/4 X 1 1/4 inches. So I don't know what the allow may be. I guess I need to make sure that I am in a WELL vetilated area when I am forging it.
- FIREBUG - Thursday, 02/28/08 18:53:42 EST

I have worked some alloy Ti, and it had to be worked in a inert atmosphere that excluded Nitrogen to be hot worked. Don't remember the alloy. It was for lifting eyes to be welded to a very large ball valve. Oddly, worked very well at room temp. I had to bend some 5/8" round into a 180 degree bend,and the guys at the plant heated with a oxy fuel torch and hot bent. Cracked all over. Took the some bar home and bent cold in my bender to a 3 1/3" diameter by hand with not too hard a job.
ptree - Thursday, 02/28/08 19:14:22 EST

Fly press: I have an old flypress(1873), made in R.I. It is small, possibly a #0. I have used it to fuller pipes(hot). Now I want to try punching .5" holes hot. Should I bother or is it too small?
- John Christiansen - Friday, 02/29/08 20:10:35 EST

Flypress Punching: You could probably do it John, but it does sound as though the press is a bit on the small side for the job. You won't hurt anything by trying, though.

You'll want to use a good punch lube; I like the stuff that Tom Clark sells. You'll also need to set up the press with a stripper. The stripper can be nothing more than a piece of barstock clamped to the press table to preven the workpiece from lifting when the punch is withdrawn. Without a stripper you end up with the punch in the work for too long so that it heats up and swells, getting stuck in the hole.
vicopper - Saturday, 03/01/08 17:31:30 EST

- John Christiansen - Sunday, 03/02/08 08:16:09 EST

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